Stub length solid carbide thru coolant drills????

Hello all, we have been using standard length solid carbide thru coolant drills for some time now, with excellent results. 90% of what
we use them for is production drilling 2024 AL, in OIL, with a ChipBlaster pushing 1500 psi through them. Works great.
Only problem is all sizes larger than .1875" are problematic in that they are too long in overall length for us. I have checked at least 5 manufacturers. I am about to have them made up from scratch to a stub length, for a considerably higher cost, from Specialty Tool. Kennametal and others will shorten drills off the shelf for the same price and lead time as making up specials from scratch.
Anybody know of a manufacturer that stocks stub lengths? I cannot find them anywhere. I need sizes up to 1/2" diameter, with an overall length no longer than 3".
Thanks all.
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Bryce

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Have you checked with Guhring?
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Anthony

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wrote:

Well, their product literature download is not working on their cobbled up (IMHO) website, and I don't have a catalog, and their west coast distribution doesn't have somebody that knows or can find out, and everybody back east isn't answering the phone, so I guess I'll try to find out tomorrow. Definately one of the major ones that I forgot to try though, thanks Anthony.
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Bryce

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Agreed that the website sucks ass. We have had a serious issue with burrs on a 2.3 mm thru hole in hypereutectic aluminum. The hole is 5x+ dia deep. Were using standard short 118 carbide drills. We were getting 6000- 8000 holes before the diameter went out of spec, with a burr at the exit from the first hole to the last. Had the Guhring applications guy come in, he went over all the parameters for the drills we were using and came to the conclusion the drill grind was the problem. He sent in some test drills, these have a step down shank, slightly longer flute length (12 mm vs 11 mm) and are coated with 'mystery coat 101' (we do not know what the coating is at this time), but they have a distinctly different grind on the nose and web than the drills we were using. We put them in for testing at the recommended feed and spindle speed, no burr.....NONE, life testing is showing a little over 80,000 holes per drill, still no burr. The exit side of the hole starts to bellmouth, requiring a drill change. These guys seem to know what they are doing.
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Anthony

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Bryce wrote:

Bryce:
    Here are some sites of manufacturers that might possibly have what you want:
http://www.drill-service.co.uk/drills/Carbide-Tipped-Drills-Through-Coolant.htm
http://www.sumicarbide.com/kds.htm
http://www.cjtkoolcarb.com/catalog/Durapoint/style115/style115.htm
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/new2-evget-company.pl?&&1513&001584&editrec=MP06-70170&
http://www.toolex.co.uk/sect1.html
http://www.cuttingtoolsupply.com/MetalRemoval/Drills/Home.htm
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BottleBob
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wrote:

Thanks much BB for the links, I searched each one extensively, and all through coolant drills are too long. It seems every manufacturer makes approximately 3x-3.5x length drills, and some longer, but nobody makes shorter that I have found. Still hunting, but think I will probably have to have specials made up...
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Bryce

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CJT Koolcarb.
<http://www.cjtkoolcarb.com/catalog/Koolcarb/style294/style294.htm
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Dan

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They have almost the exact set of lengths that I am finding at almost every manufacturer, as soon as you get over .209" in diameter, you get longer than my desired overall length of 3". When you get up to 1/2" diameter, they are 5 1/4" long. Still on the hunt, but figure I will have to have custom made drills.
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Bryce

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I know someone else mentioned Inserts drills, I have used these Iscar drills on sliding head machine due to the extra short length (they provide different geometries for aluminium/steel/stainless/iron)
http://www.iscar.com/ecat/familyHDR.asp?fnum !43&appw&mapp=DR&GFSTYP=M&type=1&lang=EN
Tinny

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I have a customer who can take whatever standard drills you like (including some of the less expensive ones), cut them short, and then put better than new points on them, all for (IMHO) very reasonable prices, and with delivery times that are typically around a week, for real.
Take a look at http://www.awddrills.com , and try a call to the phone number you find there. Tell 'em I sent you.
Hope this helps.
KG
Bryce wrote:

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Bryce,
I think I've got something that might work for you. Have you ever heard of Ceratizit? The make a product called Eco Cut Mini and Eco Cut Classic.
<http://www.ceratizit.com/downloads/pdf/pdf_pas_ctg_tur-ecocut_en.pdf
If you try them let me know how they work out.
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Dan

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W've been using the Eco-cut for about 8 months drillling flat bottom holes in 304 and 316. Chip control is excellent (high pressure oil) and insert life is way beyond what I initially expected as well.
DanL
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Thanks for the info.
I have an application I'm looking at which is a couple thousand different aluminum parts. Each is very low volume. I have a 60 tool ATC and there are so many different I.D. dimensions, most flat bottom, these tools seem perfect. Between O.D. tools, I.D. grooves, and taps, I'm looking at 25 positions gone.
If they work in S.S. I've got to believe they'd be a slam dunk in Aluminum.
Do you ever drill the hole larger by positioning off center? Or do you drill and then bore to size?
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Dan

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We usually only drill a couple thou (.005 or so off center - just enough to drag down to a clearance diameter prior to retract. Due to finish requirements on our particular application we drill, then rough with the Eco-cut. It does leave a nice finish and would most likely hold size but we prefer to finish bore with a CDHB insert. I'd call tech support if you plan to go much further off center. I seem to recall tech telling me that the tool was not designed for off center drilling but I'm sure.
DanL
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Thanks. Their literature claims that you can drill off center, but I'm a little skeptical. In any case, for this application I could drill, then bore with the tool.
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Dan

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Those look interesting, although the recommended feedrates max out really slow. .001"/rev. is a lot slower than a normal drill can feed, obviously because of geometry. On the smaller carbide thru coolant drills that we have I still feed about .005"/rev. I got lots of holes to make. Thanks for the suggestion though, I might find them useful for something else.
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Bryce

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They probably pay off for flat bottom holes. There are lots of cases where you have to drill, flat bottom with an end mill, drill etc., then bore. If this tool could just do it in one shot at a slower feed rate you'd probably still be way ahead of the game cycle time wise. Certainly set-up time would be saved.
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Dan

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Bryce, It's been too many posts for me to remember whether you specifically said non-inserted drills or not, but I saw these today in the Production Technology News rag. Sandvik Coromant Co. : CoroDrill 880 Look to be very short 2 insert drills with the companies Step Technology that is said to provide outstanding cutting force balance. 1-800-441-6180
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Anthony

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