2 sub pannels?

SNIP : :It's best to install the ground rod outside the building and run the #8 :ground wire from the buried ground rod up through a short piece of conduit :and into the building. I've seen people drive the ground rods inside then :pour the slab over it. They always end up abandoning it and installing a :second one outside after the inspector come to inspect and cannot see it.

It is good advice to install the ground rod as you suggest so that the conductor coming from the buried rod is visible. Also the ground rod itdelf should have an inspection pit/cover such as one of those depicted here.

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Reply to
Ross Herbert
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If I use the 2 inch elbow embedded in the concrete just as an entrance point for the shop, can I get some type of flexible conduit in there? I mean, can I run separat conduit in my ditch between the two buildings for main panel power, coax, telephone, outside light circuit powered by my main panel etc, and somehow all get them through the one

2 inch 90 degree elbow entrance point?
Reply to
stryped

No you cannot. You need a 1-1/4" conduit just for the feeders. To be flexible and waterproof you would have to use liquid tight flexible conduit and if my memory serves me correctly this stuff is about 1-3/4" OD. So that alone would only leave you a 1/4" to spare inside the 2" sweep and leave you no room for anything else.

Reply to
Rich.

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What about 2 1/2 inch? I think I have one of those laying around. So I guess what I am gettign at is, even though it is not acceptable to run other wires with the conduit with the main power, it is accaptable to run all those wires, if they fit, through a common entrance point piecce of conduit. (The 90 degree bend encased int he concrete?

Reply to
stryped

:

I dont know if it makes a difference but this entrance point and I assume the conduit I will lay is the schedule 40 rigid plasti conduit. Is that ok?

Reply to
stryped

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You can do it if it fits, as long as the length of the conduit that you're sliding them all into is not over 24" in length. 24" and less classifies it as a nipple. Once the length is over 24" it is considered a conduit run and then you're subject to maximum conduit fill rules. IMO, you're better off doing it the right way and not cutting corners.

Reply to
Rich.

:On Jul 15, 4:46 am, Ross Herbert wrote: :> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:25:03 -0400, "Rich." wrote: :>

:> SNIP :> : :> :It's best to install the ground rod outside the building and run the #8 :> :ground wire from the buried ground rod up through a short piece of conduit :> :and into the building. I've seen people drive the ground rods inside then :> :pour the slab over it. They always end up abandoning it and installing a :> :second one outside after the inspector come to inspect and cannot see it. :>

:> It is good advice to install the ground rod as you suggest so that the conductor :> coming from the buried rod is visible. Also the ground rod itdelf should have an :> inspection pit/cover such as one of those depicted here.http://www.fultonindustries.com.au/pdf/earthing/Earth%20Rod%20Inspect...: :If I use the 2 inch elbow embedded in the concrete just as an entrance :point for the shop, can I get some type of flexible conduit in there? :I mean, can I run separat conduit in my ditch between the two :buildings for main panel power, coax, telephone, outside light circuit :powered by my main panel etc, and somehow all get them through the one :2 inch 90 degree elbow entrance point?

As Rich has replied - no you can't do that. It is pointless to segregate datacomms cabling and power in separate conduits in the trench and then breach that segregation by squeezing them all through one 90 degree elbow. Power and datacomms segregation must be preserved for the entire length of the runs from their termination point at one end to the other, and the segregation must be visible upon inspection. Even if you were able to use flexible conduit for the datacomms cables inside the elbow, while it would be electrically segregated, it is unlikely that segregation would be immediately visible upon inspection.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

ote:

e:

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and installed another 90 degree elbow entrance point. A 1 inch. Is there a certain distance this elbow needs to be from the bigger elbow that will supply main power?

Can I not run any power run in the same conduit as the main power? I mean, I thought about as someone suggested in here, maybe running a

12-2 wire from my current garage to the detached garage. Maybe installing this wire to my out side lights to my current garage. (So when I turn my outside garage lights on, an outside light to my new detached garage comes on as well.) Does that make sense?
Reply to
stryped

There is no requirement for a ground rod in a residential Grounding Electrode System to be accessible after inspection. Ground rod inspection pits are used at communications centers, data centers, broadcast facilities, and similar structures to provide access for post installation testing that is very rarely done on a residential grounding installation. He's not building the fire alarm office for a major city he is building a detached garage. Grounding Electrode Conductors smaller then number four American Wire Gage (AWG) must be run in armor or raceway to protect them from physical damage.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

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No you can't. The emergency circuit and the communications and low voltage wiring must be kept separate from the power conductors. Best practice would be to separate them by a foot or more. The National Electric Code requires six inches between the power and communications conductors and it forbids the emergency circuit being run in the same raceway as the normal power.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and installed another 90 degree elbow entrance point. A 1 inch. Is there a certain distance this elbow needs to be from the bigger elbow that will supply main power?

Can I not run any power run in the same conduit as the main power? I mean, I thought about as someone suggested in here, maybe running a

12-2 wire from my current garage to the detached garage. Maybe installing this wire to my out side lights to my current garage. (So when I turn my outside garage lights on, an outside light to my new detached garage comes on as well.) Does that make sense?

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Keep the 90s at least 6" a part. If the 1" is for low voltage circuits then I would keep it on bay over from the panel. This way the panel is not in the way when you run these circuits up the wall.

You can install the 12-4 that was suggested to you in the same conduit as the feeders as long as the conduit is large enough for all of the conductors being installed into it.

Reply to
Rich.

I believe that is true only if it is a true emergency power circuit from a separately derived source. In his case here, the feeders and the "emergency" circuit are both originating in the same panel and can therefore both be run in the same conduit.

Reply to
Rich.

ote:

The garage being a separate building it can only have one circuit supplying it. The exception is emergency circuits. To be useful as an emergency circuit it will have to be four conductors or more. Two or three to supply 120 or 120/240 volt power and two to three additional conductors to provide lighting control depending on how it is wired. SO DON'T RUN ONLY A TWO WIRE CABLE! Four wires is the minimum for your purposes. Run a three quarter inch conduit and six number ten AWG conductors! You won't regret it. IT will provide a lot of utility for the effort you invest.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

Rich If it is not an emergency circuit then it cannot be run to the separate building at all. Buildings may only have one electrical supply unless an exception covers what is being done. Emergency circuits are not defined by there source of supply but rather by the use to which they are put. If it were a required emergency circuit it would have to have a source of supply meeting the requirements of the Life Safety Code for that type of structure. Since no emergency power is required the emergency circuit can take the form of a separate circuit to simply provide a backup source of power against a failure of the feeder.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

Cite that

Reply to
gfretwell

So it is acceptable to control my lights from my current garage? (Running a wire from my outside light of my attached garage to the out side light on my unattached garage).

Can a ground wire for earth ground oustide my detached garage be routed through a 90 degree conduit bend to enter the building panel? Can telephone or other burried cable be rounted through that same entry point?

Reply to
stryped

Yes, you need two wires run between the two fixtures. If you want to be able to turn the lights on/off from either garage then you also need and additional three wires run between the two garages for a 3-way switch circuit. You can actually to the wiring with only 4 wires instead of 5, but that tends to blow some people's minds when it's time to splice it all together.

Yes the phone wire can go up the same sweep as the wire from the ground rod because the ground wire is not a current carrying conductor.

Reply to
Rich.

I've seen a lot done with three wires, and using the neutral at the outbuilding. Talk about confusing small minds! Fifteen minutes to fix it, then they were pissed at me "for making it look so simple".

"The ground wire is not a current carrying conductor, under normal conditions"

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

LOL, been in the same position as you many times. I get a kick out of these same people who bitch and moan over my price to make them safe. Then they turn around and spend $15 for a 10 minute haircut, never stopping to realize that they're paying for a haircut to the tune of $90 an hour. :)

Reply to
Rich.

Gee, I've only paid for a couple haircuts in my whole life. I learned long ago to use electric clippers, and a handheld mirror. I am looking at shock mounting a 'lipstick' camera on the clippers, and using an old NTSC video monitor to do away with the reversed image.

I know what you mean about cheapskates, though. People used to complain about the $7.50 minimum charge to solder something, back in the '70s. Then they paid me three times that, plus parts to clean up their mess.

I was repairing Commodore 64 computers in the late '80s for my computer club & members. One new member asked me to look at his computer, then claimed I was 'Ripping him off' with an estimated $45 repair, then refused to pay the base $15 fee. I gave him his computer and wrote off the loss. He stormed into the next meeting, yelling, 'You ignorant SOB! I bought replacements for all the chips you marked bad, and it still doesn't work!" I grinned, and a lot of people laughed. Then I told him I didn't waste time marking bad parts, that I marked the ICs that I had tested in my custom built test fixture. He screamed, "You used red paint! You can't use red for good! You have to use green for good!" I smiled and told him red was not only my favorite color, and easy to find in hobby shops, but that it meant, "Stop! Do not to replace this part!" By then, everyone was laughing at him. He never came back, then word started to spread where he had cheated several other members out of software and spare equipment.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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