can unbalanced 3 phase load make meter run faster?

There is 3 phase wire coming into the computer building from the electrical post outside. Do you think it is important to balance
the load in the 3 phase output of the panel. What is the worse effect if the load is not balanced. Can that cause the 3 phase electrical meter to run faster than normal??
K
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NO!!!
There is 3 phase wire coming into the computer building from the electrical post outside. Do you think it is important to balance the load in the 3 phase output of the panel. What is the worse effect if the load is not balanced. Can that cause the 3 phase electrical meter to run faster than normal??
K
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Not always true. If a meter is properly configured using three elements for a 4-wire system, or two elements for a 3-wire system, then it will register correctly regardless of balance.
However, utilities sometimes install three-phase meters that use fewer elements in non-standard arrangements, and the accuracy is based on assumptions regarding voltage and/or current balance. As an extreme example, you can meter a single three-phase motor load with one element and then, either through a multiplier of three or an appropriate register ratio, obtain three-phase kWh. This will work as long as volts & amps are balanced. If you add a single-phase load to the phase that is metered, it will register three times the actual additional load. Of course, it will not register at all if the load is added to one of the unmetered lines.
Since his system is for a building that is always going to have single-phase loads, it was most likely metered correctly, but it could have a meter that would be affected by balance.
Ben Miller
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Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING
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Note I installed the 3 phase electric meter myself after connecting 3 big wires to the power lines. In other words, the building doesn't have existing meter. I let my men tap directly from a high powered transmission line. I didn't design the load in each phase, I just put whatever I can put in. That's why I'm concerned if the meter would run faster if the load is not balanced (which isn't).
kyle

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You need to explain this a little more clearly. Why would the building have no meter? Is it part of complex of buildings with a single utility revenue meter? You tapped a transmission line? What voltage? Wye or delta? What Form is the meter (it is stamped on the face plate)?
You see, knowing that the utility did not install this meter it is all together possible that the meter may not be the correct form for the service voltage and type. If that is the case then unbalance could affect it greatly.
Charles Perry P.E.
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Because the building load is already used up so the landlord told me to connect my own wires to the posts since the existing ones are in full capacity. The landlord also said the transmission lines can handle it. So I hire some electricians to connect it to the post using thick 4/0 wires. My concern is the 3 phrase electric meter since I didn't design all loads to be balanced.
kyle
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<snip>

Where are you? Making such a connection is illegal in most places that I know of. I guarantee you did not connect to transmission lines since you and your electrician are alive. Transmission voltages start at around 35kV (this is distribution for some, subtransmission for others).
If you do not know what you connected to (wye or delta) then you can't possibly know if you have the correct meter (it matters...alot), and then we cannot answer your unbalance question.
Charles Perry P.E.
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Landlord's insurance policy < plugged nickel.
--s falke
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This scares the hell out of me!
Ben Miller
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Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING
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I got scared too that day when the electrician I hired tried to connect the 3 wires to the transmission post. He accidently touched the 2 live wires together and there was this huge loud spark nearly making him fall 15 meters down. Glad he was able to balance himself or may have to answer his medical expense. :) But it's ok now since the wires were successfully installed. Btw. not sure whether the meter is delta wye or others since I just bought it on recommendation by people.
kyle
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So let me see if I have this straight so far... You sent an unqualified electrician to make a connection onto the utility lines, which the landlord said would work, with a wire size that was a guess based on an unknown load, with an unknown meter configuration that some people told you to buy. He shorted the lines and is lucky to be alive, but things are OK now since everything is working.
You didn't mention anything about permits, inspections or meter installation by the utility. I hesitate to ask, but do we assume that none of that took place?
Ben miller
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I already made downpayments to the place but initially told them I'd just put up 30 computers. When they learned it's double. We were supposed to apply at the electric company, but it would take weeks or months and we can't afford delays. So since we would tap legally with meter. We have to do it deep in the night to prevent policemen from seeing us and arresting us as they usually arrest people tampering with power lines. But we are not stealing electricity but just tapping it with legal meters approved. And we can't afford long delays from permit application. To be sure the wire won't overheat. We use very thick ones called 4/0. Now the balancing is what I'm concerned as well as the internal wiring where I used a bit thinner ones (which I'm thinking whether to replace with thicker ones and save electricity).
Kyle
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| I already made downpayments to the place but initially told them I'd | just put up 30 computers. When they learned it's double. We were | supposed to apply at the electric company, but it would take weeks | or months and we can't afford delays. So since we would tap legally | with meter. We have to do it deep in the night to prevent policemen | from seeing us and arresting us as they usually arrest people tampering | with power lines. But we are not stealing electricity but just tapping | it with legal meters approved. And we can't afford long delays from | permit application. To be sure the wire won't overheat. We use very | thick ones called 4/0. Now the balancing is what I'm concerned as well | as the internal wiring where I used a bit thinner ones (which I'm | thinking whether to replace with thicker ones and save electricity).
Why did you tell them 30 computers when you meant 60 computers? Seems to me you lied. Seems to me you should put the other 30 computers in another location, or maybe all 60. You obviously didn't perform due dilligence in your capacity planning.
If you tell me where you are, I could come over and take a look-see and tell you what you need to know.
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| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
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snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote in message wrote:

No. A partner joined me and combined his computers with mine to make the place rental cheaper (1/2 each for us). This is after I told the landlord about the number of computers. Anyway. I guess I'll find local electricians to calculate stuff. Besides, the meter seems not to over speed. Still monitoring.
k
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| snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote in message wrote: |> |> | I already made downpayments to the place but initially told them I'd |> | just put up 30 computers. When they learned it's double. We were |> | supposed to apply at the electric company, but it would take weeks |> | or months and we can't afford delays. So since we would tap legally |> | with meter. We have to do it deep in the night to prevent policemen |> | from seeing us and arresting us as they usually arrest people tampering |> | with power lines. But we are not stealing electricity but just tapping |> | it with legal meters approved. And we can't afford long delays from |> | permit application. To be sure the wire won't overheat. We use very |> | thick ones called 4/0. Now the balancing is what I'm concerned as well |> | as the internal wiring where I used a bit thinner ones (which I'm |> | thinking whether to replace with thicker ones and save electricity). |> |> Why did you tell them 30 computers when you meant 60 computers? Seems to |> me you lied. Seems to me you should put the other 30 computers in another |> location, or maybe all 60. You obviously didn't perform due dilligence in |> your capacity planning. |> |> If you tell me where you are, I could come over and take a look-see and |> tell you what you need to know. | | No. A partner joined me and combined his computers with mine to make | the place rental cheaper (1/2 each for us). This is after I told | the landlord about the number of computers. Anyway. I guess I'll | find local electricians to calculate stuff. Besides, the meter seems | not to over speed. Still monitoring.
If you are going to be doing illegal things by hooking into the power lines yourself, why are you worried about metering it right?
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I understood he is connected at the input panel of the building entrance, downstream from the utility meter. His power meter is used only for the landlord to charge him his electrical consumption.
1. I am sure this installation is undersized & unsafe. 2. Unbalanced three phase load is not dangerous in itself if properly protectected upstream by the right size three phase breaker. However, this very breaker is going to trip when the first phase reaches the limit, thereby cutting off power to all your load. 3. As for the meter running faster i.e. indicating more electrical consumption, I doubt any one of us can answer without specifics you haven't provided, and apparently you're not qualified enough in this domain to describe. 4. Stick to your computer business and hire a qualified electrical contractor. 5. Have you heard of Business Impact Analysis, it only means what will it cost you if the cheap ad hoc electrical job fails ?
My humble guess is many times more the cost of a proper electrical installation.
Tommy
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(remove NS to use the address) 614.937.0463 voice 208.975.1011 fax
http://worthingtonengineering.com
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<snip>

Sorry, I can no longer help. You have obviously connected illegally. You have no idea whether you have the correct meter for your service so there is no way we can answer your unbalance questions.
What country are you in?
Charles Perry P.E.
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I live in Asia.
What I forget to mention is that the transmission lines I connected to has a step down meter below the post. Step down meaning it is stepped down to smaller figure. This enable it to run using much less powered meter in megavolts of transmission lines. It's like the transmission lines current are read not directly but thru some kind of coil reader or kinda. I hope you guys are familiar with what I'm describing.
Everything is clear now? I connect my meter to the transmission lines as submeter so the landlord can know how much I contribute to the entire building. Of course I have to initiall assess whether the post has existing meter and capable of providing the increased load. Now because I don't have time to apply at the utility company and it's more of an inside building installation. This is what made me hire workers to connect the thick 3 phase wires to the transmission lines to my shop. The landlord won't care or spend a thing.
Hope you guys understand now. I use size 14 wire in the internal with 10 computers connected to each wire and breaker. Don't know if this is the right size and whether I have to balance the load of the aircon to each phase of the panel. I figured it is automatically balanced since the panel has outputs but just want to make sure.
k
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are you an electrician ? if not i would sugest you get one i dont wish to be harsh but electricity is not to be casually played with and if you dont know what you are doing why are you doing it?
martyn
www.medes.net
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