I just installed a GFCI outlet in my bathroom. There are five wires that connect to the outlet, 2 line, 2 load, and a ground. When I connect the line wires to the line terminals and the ground wire to the ground terminal, everything works fine. I get power. But when I then connect the load wires to the load terminals, the reset switch keeps tripping and the power keeps shutting off. I'm not sure why this is happening. Any ideas? I don't think that there are any loads down the line from the GFCI outlet, so I'm thinking that maybe I should just cap the load wires and call it a day. Is this o.k.?
Make sure you've got your line / load right on BOTH hot and neutral. Its possible the old one was wired backwards, as older GFCIs would operate as a regular receptacle if wired wrong. The newer models will not. Easiest way to check is look for continuity between neutral and ground on the line side.
Actually, it appears that the new ones will act as a regular receptacle when wired backwards. I just did that with a brand new Leviton "Smart Lock" GFCI (don't ask), and it was a live outlet. Neither the Test not Reset buttons did anything. When I got line and load where they belonged, Test and Reset worked as they should.
The instructions claim that they are shipped from the factory so they have to be reset before use and will not reset when wired incorrectly, but that was not my experience.
Thanks for the response. I apologize. Other than installing and troubleshooting problems with individual outlets and switches, I don't know much more about troubleshooting home electrical problems. Does downstream mean all appliances between the GFCI outlet and the main circuit breaker panel? Would I need a home wiring diagram to determine which appliances are downstream? If yes, I'm not sure that I have one. At least, I've never seen one/needed one as of yet since I've lived hear. I know how to check continuity using my multimeter. Is checking conductivity the same thing? If I see resistance between any of the neutral and ground wires on the downstream loads, what does that tell me? What should I do?
It looks like everything is wired right. According to my instructions, if you connect the line wires to the load terminals, the receptacle will still operate, but it will not trip (shut off) when you push the "test" button like it is supposed to do I just tested the continuity between the neutral (white) and ground wires. It measured 0.
| It looks like everything is wired right. According to my instructions, if | you connect the line wires to the load terminals, the receptacle will still | operate, but it will not trip (shut off) when you push the "test" button | like it is supposed to do I just tested the continuity between the neutral | (white) and ground wires. It measured 0.
Zero what? Zero ohms? If that is zero ohms, that is the problem.
Shorts between neutral and ground downstream (away from power source) would allow electricity to "leak" back through the grounding wire, which is what the GFCI device is supposed to prevent.
Other possibilities include an actual damaged neutral or hot wire downstream, or a shared neutral circuit where the neutral is merged with the neutral on another circuit. Such things can function, but a GFCI will still see it as a leak because the current coming and going is not the same on the two wires being monitored.
Dave, seriously, if you have any concerns about doing this installation safely, you shouldn't be in a NG asking questions. I would get a qualified person to finish the work. The service call will be much cheaper than damaged property or injured personnel.
Sorry if I sound like a doom-sayer, I've seen too many house fires, electrically started. :(
You tested 0 ohms between neutral (white) and ground. Therefore GFCI complains about defective wiring. A wiring problem that may have existed since the house was first built. Find that short in one of the 'downstream' (load side) wall receptacles. Open each cover plate and inspect for a short between ground and neutral wires. And then confirm, with meter, that the short has been eliminated. If necessary, electrical tape those wires as well as separate them.
BTW, if any of those receptacles are powering computer equipment, then every wire should be firmly attached via receptacle screws on side; not connected by pushing into the back. Each wire must be firmly wrapped around screw so that it remains there even if screw is loose. Insulation on the white wire should have never made contact to bare copper safety ground. IOW the GFCI trip may be a symptom of a bad electrical job inside one of those 'downstream' (load side) wall receptacles.
Only white and neutral wire that should measure 0 ohms is the wire that goes to breaker box. Wires that connect to the GFCI's 'Line' screws. Those wires that connect to 'Load' screws must measure infinite ohms (no conductivity). GFCI will detect these wiring defects.
GFCI will not trip off when test is pressed? Did you pr> It looks like everything is wired right. According to my instructions, if
No.. I appreciate the suggestion. I like to install things, troubleshoot problems on my own, whenever I can. I learn that way. Sometimes, though. I've found it's better to let a professional do the install/repair or at least watch a professional do it the first time around to see how it's done. I definitely don't need a house fire, damaged electrical components, or a possible electrical injury.
Just a couple things.. The 0 ohm reading was between the line neutral (hot wire) and the ground wire . The reading between the load neutral and ground reads infinite. Is this o.k.? I'm sorry if I didn't make this clear. You write about the wire holes and the wire screws on the receptacle. When I the installed the GFCI, I pushed all of the wires (2 line and 2 load) through their respective holes. Was this a mistake? There are holes besides each line and load screw.
I think that statement was in reference to inspecting the standard duplexes that may exist load-side of the GFCI, In which case I agree with him totally.
It is ok. Cap it, and see what doesn't work. There has to be *something* downstream (ie electricaly farther away from the voltage source) because you have wires going out as well as coming in. You might find that a seldom used receptacle - perhaps in the garage or outdoors is dead. When you find something that doesn't work in the future, remember the capped wires. When you call the electrician in to fix it, tell him about the bathroom GFCI & capped wires. That will reduce the repair time.
If this was the newer type of GFCI (probable) then the right way is to install the wires in the holes - NOT to wrap them around the screws - and then tighten the screws. Tightening the screws on this style GFCI receptacle clamps the wires. Simple to check - if the screws are loose, the wires pull out of the holes easily.
Unlike it being ok to cap the load side wires, it is NOT ok to leave those screws loose!
Great... Thanks. I capped the load wires and put the receptacle assembly back together. It works fine. With my multimeter, I checked the voltage of all the outlets and switches that are on the same circuit line with the GFCI receptacle (the receptacles that power off with the GFCI receptacle when I flip the breaker switch). Are these the receptacles that I need to check? There were 7 outlets and 2 switches that I tested. I think I got them all. They all tested at about 120 volts. I'm not sure what else I could/should test. I'd like to get a wiring diagram of my town house. That way maybe I could tell for sure if I missed anything. Does anyone know how I can get one? Would a home wiring diagram be helpful in this case?
John Ray has corrected a misconception. All those other wall receptacles, if powering things that require high startup currents (ie electric motors) or computers should have wires wrapped completely around the screws; not use the push in holes on the back of conventional wall receptacles. That was not a reference to GFCIs that can only connect using screws.
Dave has apparently modified an earlier post. There is no conductivity between any two 'load' side wires. He was measuring neutral to ground on 'line' side. BTW the conductivity meter must be set to read in the megohm region - not just measure for short circuit. The 'beeper on a meter' is not a valid reading. The meter must read more than a megohm resistance which is more than testing for a short circuit. Dave may have done this correctly. But if he has not measured a leakage, then other problems may exist such as a leaky capacitor installed in some receptacle as a noise reducer or some other problem causing a non-linear leakage. For example, a 1000 ohm resistance between two wires would not 'beep' the conductivity tester but would be resistance so low as to always trip the GFCI. 100K ohm resistance might cause marginal GFCI tripping. But the resistance between two wires much be more than 1000K ohms. Anything at or less is considered a short circuit - to the GFCI..
Non-linear in this case would mean a leakage between two wires does not exist when at low voltage (ie using a meter) but exists when a higher voltage or a higher frequency current is applied. Inspector for something unusual in that electric box (ie electronic bugging device).
Other possibilities could include a short inside walls from the white neutral wire to, for example, some adjacent pipe. One way to check for this fault is to measure for high megohm resistance from each 'load' side wire to the safety ground wire on the 'line' side cable.
This we know. Something is leaking excessive current. If I read the post correctly, this leakage only exists when the 'load' wire is connected to 'load' screws on GFCI. But I am rather confused about another post where the test button does not work. That is a different inconsistency.
I am rather concerned about a GFCI not tripping when the test button is pressed. One reason why this can happen is that the 'load' and 'line' wires are reverse connected to GFCI. Another reason observed is that the 'load' side neutral wire was wrapped together (wire nutted) with a neutral wire from some other circuit. I have seen amateur electricians do this. Two switches were to be powered by different circuits. But the electrician wired all neutrals from both circuits together. When asked why he did this, well, he always did this for years. It was only when AGFIs were required by code that his circuits had strange problems.
IOW be suspicious of any receptacle or switch boxes that control power from two different circuit breaker circuits. Just another reason why the GFCI would see a failure and complain.
Again, we do know one thing. The GFCI sees and is complaining about a wiring problem. It could be a problem existing for decades - before the GFCI was installed.
How do electricians learn of the wir> I think that statement was in reference to inspecting the standard
Tom - look at a new GFCI. The new ones should NOT be wired by wrapping the wire around the screws. The wires SHOULD be put in the holes in the back, and the screws must be tightened. These are not the "push-in" holes you are thinking of. Those make contact with the wires via spring tension. The newer GFCI's have a clamp in the holes, which is tightened onto the wires when you tighten the screws.
Yes! Home wiring diagrams don't exist until you make one - and you can't make one that includes the wires that are capped off. The closest you'll get - until you make your own - is looking at the labeling that is supposed to be at your service panel.
But all is not lost - in making your own diagram, you are likely to find out where those capped wires go. To make a diagram: draw each room on its own piece of paper. Mark *EVERY* outlet. An "outlet" is any place where a device can use electricity from you house wiringt, not just receptacles. Mark the diagram with every light, switch, receptacle and hard-wired appliance. Don't forget to mark the thermostat and doorbell transformers - you'll need to search for them. You'll also need to make a diagram that shows *ALL* outdoor outlets. With a helper at the panel, go from room to room with your diagrams, and mark the breaker number that kills the power to each and every outlet. Use a 3 lite tester to test for power at the receptacles. It is much easier and better than a multimeter for this task.
In the process, you should find something that does not work. If you do, it is highly probable that it is connected to the wires that are capped. When you are done with the diagrams, put them on the PC and print them. Then make one more - a diagram of your service panel showing *EVERYTHING* that is connected to each breaker. Tape a clear sheet of acetate on the panel and put the diagram inside. You don't need a CAD program for this - anything that allows drawing rectangles and adding text will work - even a word processor.
The next time you have a problem, there will be no guesswork needed. It takes a few hours, but it is well worth the effort.
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