Info to backup safety of aluminum wiring?

On 9 Aug 2005 11:29:34 -0700, "Harry Muscle" Gave us:

Pay the money to change out the house to copper. It will increase the value of the house, and will make you a lot safer.

It isn't so much that Al is unsafe. I would just say that Al *that* old may be prone to some rather "resistive" terminations.

The new build is a worthy investment all the way around.

It is a safety hazard, you won't find a credible person/source to refute that. That is why the entire industry switched back over to copper in the 70's. "done properly" doesn't last over time, that is the problem.

The entire industry,,, you mean residential. Even then your wrong. New tract, custom and semi homes all have AL wiring in them. A/c, stove, cooktop, any load above 30 amps

Utilities use AL almost exclusively.

There is nothing wrong with the wire it was/and is the lack of craftsmen and the terminiations that caused the problems. A properly trained electrician knows how to install AL. The right devices do not have a problem when terminating AL. Wrong device, then there can be problems.

In the late 1960's copper prices were on the way UP. So contractors turned to AL to save money and keep housing affordable in the 1970's. There was even a conductor call copper clad AL that was sold for a while. Did not work correctly like they thought it should, it did not last long. When the copper prices fell there was a return to it.

Most contractors did not provide any training when shifting over to AL romex. The one I worked for sent all of us to a training class for 2 days. I had the responsibility of wiring the first apartment complex, 180 units all in AL back in 1971. The place is still standing and there has never been a fire. Do not blame the material. Blame the lack of training and experence. Did anyone blame the gun that shot Kennedy, Regan, or Lennon? No they blamed the guy behind the gun.

There used to be info at the CPSC on the subject. "Proper" means using the receptacles and switches that are rated and marked CO/ALR, or pigtailing copper wires to the aluminum before connecting to the devices. There is a wire nut listed for joining the two metals, but CPSC had an issue with it. There are also compression sleeves and specail tooling for the purpose which can only be used by electricians that have been specially trained to do the work. Non of these "proper" methods was available when your house was built. If it wasn't rewired using either of these methods, you are at risk. These methods have been tested by UL and the CPSC, though they do not agree on the safety of the wire nut. I don't think you'll find much to refute. The homes and lives lost are real.

So the only pigtailing method approved by both agencies is with the compression sleeves (I'm assuming you're referring to the COPALUM tool)?

Do both agencies agree that using the CO/ALR marked devices is a permanently safe solution? However, I'm assuming that one would have a hard time finding certain parts with this mark (GFCI, light fixtures, etc.).

Thanks, Harry

I have used the CO/ALR marked devices with out incident for many years. Finding them gets to be a challenge. I have had to go to the wholesale house to order a box. Your probably not going to find devices dual labeled at the box stores.

I did a search at the Leviton site and did not find an GFCI that was dual rated. Light fixtures are dependant on the connections and temperature. Using the dual rated wire nuts solves the problem.

I believe that a tight connection is needed for any termination. It all goes back to the craftsman.

I second SQLs opinion. The mere fact that there are millions of aluminum wired homes that never had a problem seems to confirm it.

This is certainly a lot less forgiving to hacks and handymen but if it was properly installed and nobody screws with it, you will probably be OK. Just be vigilent to unusual sounds, smells and static on the TV/radio. If you suspect a problem call a pro to investigate.

After problems developed, UL removed listing on wire and devices in

7-1971. In 9-1971 they started listing devices which are marked CO/ALR. I havn't heard of problems with these devices. The problem was more than just skill.

Bud--

I can't site any references that you are asking for (without doing alot of research, anyway).

I can speak from experience.

I have lived in apartments with aluminum wiring and I have found many faulty terminations at duplex outlets, switches, and light fixtures. Faulty terminations are usually "heard" as arcing when appliances are plugged-in. I have seen way too many charred fixtures, outlets, and switches for my taste. I have also found it difficult to find fixtures rated for CO/AL (and I would have replaced all of these poorly installed fixtures on my own dime had I been able to find CO/AL).

I have experienced a house-fire caused by faulty wiring -- copper wiring. It seems that the contractor pulled the wire so tight that the wire kinked and caused a hot-spot, that over the years finally ignited the wood 2x4. (Fortunately no one was injured, and we did get a much needed roof replacement, along with a new HVAC unit from the insurance.)

I currently live in a house built in 1973 and it has aluminum wiring. When we moved in 12 years ago, the first thing my wife and I did, was to pigtail every aluminum termination with a wire-nut, a 3" piece of copper wire (with the correct insulation color), and anti-oxidant compound to fill the wire-nuts. I was very very careful not to nick any aluminum and I very carefully sanded each termination with 600-grit sandpaper. We then bought and installed brand new outlets and switches (rated for copper). (We left most of the light fixtures alone.)

I have not had any problems with any of the stuff we replaced. In 12 years only one ceiling lamp fixture has caused problems when I put in compact flourescent light bulbs. I had occasion to examine some of the replacement outlets last year. Everything looked great. The only 'problem' I saw -- the anti-oxidant compound had become "gummy" in the wire nuts.

I don't know if what we did was "code", or "above code", but I feel safer than if the house was wired, "pure" aluminum.

Hope this helps Tom P.

I agree with most all you said. But ISTR that when Al first came into residential use, there wasn't a lot of separate Cu/Al UL listed devices. Using Al on devices that were just 'UL listed' led to some trouble. Later, UL started listing devices specifically for Al or Cu/Al.

Once contractors and home-owners 'got edumacated' about only using 'Al' or 'Cu/Al' listed devices with Al wire, things got settled pretty well.

daestrom

>

The story is not quite done. It seems there were problems with the CU/AL devices with the smaller wire sizes. The replacement was designated CO/ALR.

Yes

I think so.

However, I'm assuming that one would have a

Straight 120 V switches and receptacles only the last time I looked. No GFCIs, dimmers, etc. Individual light fixtures are usually small loads. If you open them up, though, you'll likely find the copper and aluminum wire nutted together with a nut that is not listed for that application and technically illegal. In my own case, I found receptacles used to power heavy loads like vacuum cleaners and heaters to be the crispy ones.

The site is run by a home inspector. His interest is that home inspectors encounter conditions that may be a hazard and should be reported in an inspection report. The site collects information and has web links on a number of issues.

On aluminum a lot of the information comes from the US Consumer Product Safety Commision and Jesse Aronstein, PH.D., P.E., who was a vice president at Wright-Malta Corp. Wright-Malta is a test laboratory that did extensive testing on aluminum wiring and associated devices for the CPSC and others. I see no evidence that the inspect-ny web site is other than an honest attept to furnish unbiased information.

One of the sites linked from inspect-ny is

*********************************************************************IF YOU HAVE ALUMINUM WIRING I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU LOOK AT THIS SITE.

*********************************************************************

It is a paper writen by Jesse Aronstein, referenced above.

The paper includes: - aluminum wiring systems, including those installed after UL changed the standards for wire and devices about 1971, are potential hazards - information on COPALUM crimp connections referred to in other posts (these probably can only be made by a electrician trained by the manufacturer) - what the problem is with wire nuts - very specific information on using wirenuts to make connections to a copper pigtail to connect to a device. - existing wirenuts in an aluminum should be replaced - very specific information on connections of aluminum wire to switches and receptacles - information on connecting aluminum wire to circuit breakers

Also other very useful information. It should be emphasized that this information is based on extensive tests, not conjecture. The paper was writen in 2000.

In information on FPE breakers, inspect-ny says that the CPSC tried to regulate aluminum wire systems but was sued by the aluminum industry. The courts found that aluminum wiring systems were not consumer products and not subject to CPSC regulation (consumers do not buy significant aluminum system products).

--------------------- Does anyone know what wirenuts, if any, are listed for aluminum and copper?

Bud-

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house From: Mark Fineman Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:30:08 -0400 Local: Wed, Aug 10 2005 9:30 pm Subject: Re: Info to backup safety of aluminum wiring?

Does anyone know if using (and regularly testing) AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupers) increases reliability aluminium wiring to that of copper wiring when the current connection mechanisms are used?

***

A very good question. I'd love to know the answer too.

Thanks, Harry

What about connection devices that are designed for larger aluminum wiring ... but there happens to be a version of them that accepts smaller wires? There's a whole bunch of such connectors shown in this catalog:

. I'm assuming some of these would normally be found inside of a breaker panel to attach the aluminum wire comming in from outside. As well as used to make connections for larger aluminum wire that supplies ovens, etc. However, a lot of these connectors accept 14 awg wire too, therefore, would using such connectors be safer than using wirenuts. After all the safety of wirenuts is not agreed upon by all, but how about the safety of such connectors?

Thanks, Harry

Tests show that failure in wire nuts result from no contact between the wires because of oxide on the aluminum. The steel spring breaks through the oxide to make contact with the aluminum conductors. This means all the current is going through the spring. A CPSC report at

a 2 volt drop across the wire nut at 17 amps. This is only about

0.1 ohm resistance but is a 34 watt heater. At this current level the spring is red hot. This destroys the insulation on the wires and the wire nut and can start a fire. But the voltage drop is low and constant so lights are not dim and do not flicker. Since there is no arc, there is nothing for the AFCI to see.

Later in the deterioration the the connection can totally fail, possibly with arcing that generates a lot more heat. Arcing here would be picked up by an AFCI.

(The link above is part of a slide show that goes forward and back.)

links to this site and others of interest.

Bud--

Note the split bolt connector is not UL aprroved for aluminum. I used the

Are split bolt connectors in general not UL approved for aluminum to copper connections? Or just the ones in the link I've provided?

Thanks, Harry

I just did a search on split bolt, aluminum, and UL, and it looks like you must have been refering to just the link that I provided above, since this page for example lists split bolt connectors designed for joining aluminum to copper and it says that they are UL and CSA certified:

. So I've just answered my own question as to what you were refering too ...

Thanks, Harry

P.S. Maybe I should start a new thread about this whole idea of using larger connectors with aluminum wire ... since this is totally off topic from where this thread started.