Service Drop Cable

Probably 2/3. At The Home Depot, where I work in the electrical dept., that is what we recommend to people for that purpose. In fact, I sold some today. I always remember it, because I usually only sell that stuff about once per month, and the spool weighs like 500 pounds.

As far as I know, a single wire #2 will only do 100 amps, but in a 2/3

200 amp service drop, there are of course, two #2s, so you get 200 amps.

Please, all the EEs and electricians out there, correct me if I'm wrong.

Once again I am reminded why I do not use HD for electrical. :)

On 09/12/05 09:53 am Chris tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Since I do not know what "2/3" cable is, I need an explanation. But if he is saying that two 100A conductors (one for each "hot") are capable of carrying 200A, then of course he is wrong.

What cable *is* required, anyway?

BTW, even if I go to an electric-supply warehouse, will they necessarily know the answer? It's the licensed electrician who is supposed to know the Code and what to use, not the guy behind the counter anywhere.

Perce

I discoverd the ground screws and ground clips I bought there are not UL listed (Halex brand) - it is a NEC code violation to use them.

Bud--

You are correct if you go to a supply-warehouse, they may or may not know the answer. In this case any warehouse worth a damn would know. If they did not know they would either look it up or recommend someone that would know (i.e. a licensed electrician). I am pretty sure any outfit worth a damn would not spit out such a ridiculous, life and house threatening, answer. Than again, anyone asking such a question, might be very-well talked into hiring an electrician.

We are taking about 200amps!!!!! Not something to guess at!

I know enough that I would not have to ask the question. I also know enough not to advise other people with answers that could burn the guys house down. That is what licensed-electricians are for, or for that matter people in the know. The local electric supply company I go to has one or two licensed electricians. Normally I just check my data / configuration with them. I would bet my life savings that they would not say "but in a 2/3 200 amp service drop, there are of course, two #2s, so you get 200 amps".

HD always sells the fact that licensed professionals work there. This is pure BS, and the post above drives it home even more. Granted the poor HD guy is not a licensed electrician, and I think it safe to assume that there is not one in the HD that he works at. For if there was I am sure that he would of been well-educated at giving out "guesses".

My last venture at HD electrical I was looking for a 3-phase disconnect. HD "professional" said they do not carry 3-phase disconnects anymore and recommended using a single-phase disconnect and "hard-wiring" one leg. Wonder if this is the same guy?

If by the Code you mean the NEC, then you are wrong. Utilities don't follow the NEC when sizing service drops. 2/3 means #2 aluminum, 3 conductors. That would be the "norm" for short service drops for 200 amp services. If the service gets a little long, then 1/0 aluminum would be used.

Keep in mind that you cannot compare the conductor ampacity ratings in the NEC with those used by utilities. Overhead service drops by utilities are governed by the NESC not the NEC.

Charles Perry P.E.

Is that the same brand as the 29cent 15amp outlets?

Could never figure out how they can sell something so cheap. Obviously they are cheap outlets, but who in the world can even make cheap ones that cheap?

I can only assume that they are "loss leaders".

What the utility uses has absolutely NOTHING to do with the way an electrician can do the job. Where I live, if you can even get an overhead service, you would use 4/0 copper per phase and 3/0 for the neutral. If you want to use AL then one size bigger. The utility would connect to those wires using ASCR cable. I am not going to list the size, cause it does not matter.

The service drop (the overhead conductor) might be #2 but as Mr Perry says, that is the utility string wire in free air under the NESC. As soon as you get to the service point where they splice to the service ENTRANCE cables at the service head the minimum size is 2/0 copper or

4/0 alumiinum. An underground service lateral will use the larger wire since it is not "free air". That is for a dwelling only. If this is any other occupancy you would use 3/0 copper or 250Kcmil aluminum

They run ACSR right up to the house itself where you are? Seems unusual to run open wire uninsulated and uncovered cables up to a house........ I can understand they would run it like that to a pole in the yard tho, they do here sometimes.

A 2/3 is 2-gauge, three wire. The red and black for hot, 2-gauge, and the white for the neutral, also 2-gauge, and of course a bare ground,

4-gauge, all twisted up into one big black cable.

You are correct, it is the licensed electrician who is supposed to know. That is precisely why HD employees are told NEVER to quote code to customers, even in the unlikely event that they actually know. Also, we do not have a code book to look things up.

But nevertheless, Home Depot is a DO-IT-YOURSELF store. So, of course the very first thing a customer would ask me is what wire do I use for ? If you know the answer already, great. 99.99% of people do not.

You try telling the customer that comes in from his minimum wage job picking fruit and doesn't even understand english, to hire a 100 dollar an hour electrician. See what happens. Go ahead.

I tell them what I know, to the absolute best of my knowlege. I am not a licensed electrician, I am open with that, it is not a secret. I am a 10 dollar an hour, recent university graduate that cannot get a better job for lack of real-world "experience". My degree is in telecommunications. Not EE. For Home Depot, this is close enough to work in the electrical department.

In the Home Depot, in the middle of a low-income area of a major city, where I work currently, and I have worked at 4 different ones in California, some rural and some urban, not a single one has a real electrician. Why would a real licensed electrician that could be making like 100 dollars an hour want to work retail and make at most 15 dollars an hour?

Nonetheless, I do have pride in my job, and always give the customer an answer that is to the best of my knowlege. Perhaps that is one of the reasons I read this newsgroup, to further my knowlege to the best of my ability.

I am one of the few people in my entire store that even have a college degree. At least 90% of this store does not.

It was not me that recommended to hard-wire one leg of a 3-phase. I don't deal with 3-phase anything. You're right, Home Depot does not sell anything 3-phase. I am told it is because 3-phase is not commonly found in the home. That is good enough for me.

So what is the right answer to the original question anyhow? To restate what I said before... Please tell me the right answer! I want to know!

Anthony Guzzi wrote: > Kissi Asiedu wrote: >

The cable you are referring to is 2/0 X 3 conductors. Two ought is four sizes larger than #2.

-- Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

? Depends. The utility will run #2, not 2/0, for the overhead service. #2 in open air can easily carry the load. The only reason the utility would use larger conductor would be to avoid a voltage drop problem for longer runs. The service entrance has to be much larger than #2 as per NEC.

Charles Perry P.E.

Do not think anyone could come up with a better response than you did.

I am in no way bashing your efforts when I mention that HD advertises having licensed professionals. They advertise it, not you. It is clear to most who know a little, that this is not true. As you mentioned no licensed electrician is going to work at that wage. Although there might be some retired electricians that are the exception. These are few and far between. Problem is there are probably a lot of fools who shop at HD and think that they are in fact talking to a licensed individual. Were would I be if I had listened to the guy who told me to hardwire one leg of the 3 phase?

Seems like you are over qualified for the job, even with the parallel degree. I have done a service connect a couple of times. Does this qualify me to give out answers? No. This is not like running 14/2 for a light switch. It will also vary from region to region and from electric company and such. You can see this by the more qualified answers in this post as they vary somewhat.

It can also be argued that I was wrong is saying we are dealing with

200amps. It might be said that we are dealing with an almost unlimited number of amps. You or the house is not going to trip any breaker at the power plant. Again another reason this is not like wiring a light switch.

Still not sure what you are referring to as "2/3" and your explanation above leaves me even more confused. If you are not sure what 2/0 is please look it up. There is a huge difference between 2/0 and the 2 gauge you are referring to. I think 2/0 at HD has a grey jacket and is on the spools on the floor.

Read the answers that people more in the know have posted here. From that you can arrive as close as possible what the correct answer is. I would suggest though that you focus your knowledge after the breaker panel. I would assume that 98% of the business arrives from that anyways.

As most who know better here would tend to agree this is not something to guess at. If the OP had asked what gauge wire I should run for my 16amp compressor, you would see a lot of people responding. These same people know better than to respond to something as serious as a service drop, and will leave it to the more qualified individuals. It does nobody any good to guess at it.

Chris

Have you ever worked in the utility industry? If you had, you would know what 2/3 is. It is 3 -#2 aluminum conductors. Often with two conductors insulated for 600V and one bare conductor. It is VERY common as a service drop conductor for houses. Perhaps I should explain what a service drop is. In the utility world, that is the overhead conductor running from the secondary of the transformer to the weatherhead on your house. Not sure why you are busting his balls when he gave the correct answer. What is uncommon is for a customer to install their own service drop conductors. It is not unheard of. If you have a farm service, for example, the utility may install a meter on a pole and the customer runs service conductor to all of his buildings. There of some examples where a trailer service may work this way also.

Service entrace cable is different. It is required by the NEC to be MUCH larger. It is the cable running from the weather head to the meter base and from the meter base to the breaker panel (or disconnect depending on the installation).

Charles Perry P.E.

Not busting on anyone really, if it comes across as such sorry. Reread what he said about selling it to people. You do not sell service drops to people at HD!

I just reread his 2/3. At first I thought he mentioned two hots and a bare ground. I know see that he had it right.

My gripe is the term "probably". The term probably and any mention of cabling under 12/2 should not be in the same sentence. Actually probably and any current flowing cable should not be in the same sentence.

Not something to guess at, and is something to leave for a person in the know, or licensed.

Chris

Incorrect. I am referring to a #3 X 3 conductors. For my purposes, 2/0 does not come in a cable with others, but seperately.

I do know what 2/0 is.

At HD, it has a black coating. Maybe some of them have grey, but at all of mine, it has been black. It really doesn't matter.

It seems to me that the coating on those is not sufficient insulation, especially since they are not in a cable with other wires.

I would agree as well. Unfortunately, I have to know a little about everything, since if someone asks, I have to tell them something. In my line of work, "I don't know" simply doesn't work.

Yes, that is exactly what I am referring to. Except that the conductors are all stranded copper, and not aluminum. We don't sell ANY aluminum wire.

Thank you for the explanation of what a service drop is. That is exactly the kind of information that I crave. Real world stuff.

Now, doesn't this require the utility company to climb the pole in order to connect the cable to the secondary of the transformer and the meter on the house?

So, "service entrance" is different from "service drop"?

Many of my customers live in trailers. At a home depot where I used to work, in a rural area, many of the customers lived on farms.