Re: Rectangular and Polar Question in AC

I'm returning to school to get a BS in EE and I'm a bit worried. Like a few

>people stated, school only teaches you to plug numbers into formulas, but >doesn't give you a chance to make you physically understand how things work.

I think you will find that your BSEE curriculum will be very different from your AA training. It will be much more analytical (much more mathematical) with a more thorough understanding of physics and electrical theory. In addition, you won't just "plug numbers into formulas." You will learn how the formulas were derived and you might be required to show that YOU can derive them. (Don't let this concept worry you. You will be given enough math training so that you will be able to perform these operations.) Such exercises bring real insight into the meaning of functions and equations.

As of recently I've been reading up on >designing and even that is hard because a simple transistor circuit has a >ton of calculations and each person has their own way of doing it.

Different people may do things differently, but designing with transistors (or anything else) is not haphazard. Certain things must be taken into consideration and results of certain types must be obtained. Design is an open-ended problem, meaning that there typically aren't fixed recipes for doing things. Engineering wouldn't be much fun if there were.

An EE curriculum will expect you to analyze a whole lot of circuits. Most of these problems are contrived so that the solutions are relatively straighforward. These sorts of exercises will get your feet wet and will give you a sense of what's important and how to attack various types of circuit problems.

You can probably expect to do some real, if rudimentary, design in something like a senior design seminar. Solving real problems like this in an environment where there are professors available for coaching and fellow student who can offer their ideas is very helpful.

BUT, when you get out into the real world and get real design assignments, you'll probably be lost for a while. Your real design training will be under the tutelage of an experienced engineer. This will happen if you're lucky. If you're not lucky, you'll have to absorb these skills much more slowly on your own. But there is still hope: transistor data sheets aren't really as daunting as they might seem right now.

For >instance, school doesn't teach you how to read data sheets for transistors

Don't be so sure. You don't learn how to analyze transistor circuits without learning about transistor parameters.

If you calculate a transistor circuit naturally you wont get >your exact calculations, but if you plug it into a spice program like Micro >Cap or Multisim, you get exact answers.

Both of these statements are wrong.

So there has to be a calculation >process where you can get exact answers. Granted those software programs >probably have tons of formulas and they do it at a rate of billions of times >a second, but there is a way to get ideal real world answers.

When you analyze a circuit with pencil and paper, you can only consider a few parameters at a time. Spice-type programs can consider many parameters at once. But Spice programs don't give you the insight that's possible with pencil and paper calculations, and they often give erroneous results. The problem with Spice programs is that they are strictly numerical and it is relatively easy to introduce errors and instability into numerical calculations. (Computers are not the be-all and end-all of problem solving.) This problem can lead to erroneous answers or even the failure to converge to a solution.

Then things I don't understand is say high frequency multipliers or >harmonics. I deal with high frequency multipliers and I don't get how you >can take a harmonic of a sine wave say 100MHz sine wave taking the 7th >harmonic to get 700MHz out. School teaches you the points of a sine wave >such as all the degree points (or radian points if you want to deal with >radians) But how can a repeating sine wave have something on the so called >7th harmonic that will allow it to multiply up to 700MHz?

Don't expect that you should understand this stuff BEFORE you go to school. The concepts needed to understand harmonics and frequency multiplication are simple. You will be taught all about this sort of thing.

There are tons of people in the world that just do things and don't know why >they do it, but thankfully there are people out there who do know what they >are doing. Too bad the school system couldn't have more people like that >teaching.

Don't be so quick to judge. Take the BSEE courses and I think you will change your mind.

Reply to
Bob Penoyer
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in article vw24b.232082$Oz4.62924@rwcrnsc54, Peter at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 8/30/03 7:28 AM:

If that is the case, you are going to the wrong school or taking the wrong course of study!

I see you did not try to answer this question. Why not?

Bill

Reply to
Repeating Decimal

in article vw24b.232082$Oz4.62924@rwcrnsc54, Peter at snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote on 8/30/03 7:28 AM:

Some thing to learn early in your career are:

Life is a series of trick problems.

For most problems there is no single solution.

If someone already knows a good solution, the do not need you.

Bill

Reply to
Repeating Decimal

I'd like to echo the sentiment given by Steven Bastien. Steven, you're absolutely correct. As frustrating as it may be initially, taking the complex number notation and its use in electrical/physical phenomenon on "faith" is precisely what's needed. Hopefully the "faith" will only be needed in the beginning and soon a mastering of the mathematical details will alleviate that pain. I experienced that pain at great length when complex numbers and their use were first introduced to me in my Circuits courses.

Over time the pain begins to heal and you begin to feel more at ease with having those complex numbers lying around.

capacitance

Reply to
Jason Dugas

----------- The use of complex numbers can be brought in without the need for "faith" If, at the time of your introduction to AC analysis, you have a knowledge of simple first and second order DEQ's it is very easy to jump from the steady state solution of the DEQ for a sinusoidal excitation to the concept of phasor notation. and use of complex numbers . At this stage it is not necessary to get into more esoteric aspects of complex numbers.

-- Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@peeshaw.ca remove the urine to answer

>
Reply to
Don Kelly

You know, I've recently come to this conclusion myself. In the professional world, it's going to be work no matter what area you get into. Sometimes I get psyched about going into EE. Then sometimes I read the posts in this group, the stuff sounds complicated, and I think maybe I should major in computer science instead. But if I'm just looking for some easy to fix code, they'll either do it themselves or have a program that does it!

Matt

wrote

Reply to
Matt Collins

professional

You're learning already ;-)

Having crossed a couple of careers, I can tell you that comp sci is just as complicated in its own way. Understanding fifth-normal form database structures, or writing 'exception-safe' code in C++ has its rules to follow. And there is more than one way to do that stuff as well.

It will pay off immensely in whatever field you pursue to not just memorize a bunch of 'rules-of-thumb', but take the time to truly understand. More work, but much more adaptable to new situations.

Of course, there *are* uses for 'rules-of-thumb' too ;-)

daestrom

Reply to
daestrom

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