I believe this would be the best group for this question...
I am needing to do some work in my breaker panel and want to make sure it is not live before I do so. So I go outside to the meter where I have a 200A breaker to disconnect power to the house. When I flip the breaker to the off position, it immediatley springs back to the on position. If I hold it down in the off position, the meter continues to run, so I am not getting it shut off. I am assuming this breaker should work just like a breaker in my service panel, but I can't seem to get it to shut off. I have never tried shutting down power to an entire house before, and am curious if this is normal behavior for this breaker or is there a trick to getting it to turn off. Any help would be appreciated.
Molded-case circuit breakers made in the last 50 years are supposed to be "trip free," but lubricants applied during assembly do dry out. You MAY have a 50/50 chance of it tripping on overcurrent. MCCBs are possible to test in place and done so in industrial and institutional sites, but it is not a trivial process.
The likelihood of needing it for a manual disconnect is probably at least equal to needing it to clear on overcurrent. {It has warned you it has a problem.}
It sounds as though the blades have become welded to the sockets. Best to get an electrician come in and use the proper tools to pry them apart. If all else fails, the power company will come in and pull the meter out. You can't do this because it means breaking the seal and that will get you a hefty fine.
Matt, the usual practice for dropping power to your service panel is simply to pull the meter. To do this, simply cut and remove the meter seal, remove the ring around the meter, and when you pull the meter towards you it will un-plug cutting-off all power to your service panel. When your work is completed, just plug the meter back in, and replace the ring and meter seal. Normally the next time that the electric company reads the meter they will simply install a new seal. (Just don't do this on a regular basis, but once every few years generally goes unquestioned.)
In most homes lacking an external cut-off switch, replacing the main breaker in the indoor service panel requires pulling the meter to do safely.
That said, you didn't tell us what kind of breaker your external disconnect uses, and it sounds like it is one of the self-resetting types. Then too, it could be simply faulty.
Around here you have to call them when you cut the seal and tell them when to come back to reseal the unit (FPL) The girl who reads the meter will not seal it, she just reports the seal being cut. It is up to the customer to prove they aren't stealing if they didn't call. That can either be a short story or a big deal depending on your usage history and readings when they seal the meter. Usually if you simply call and say you had a main breaker go bad it is an easy deal.
Louis Bybee's advice should not be followed!!!! You are going to kill yourself if you follow it!!! Giving advice without being there is like being an armchair quarterback. Call a qualified electrician to do the work.
I have to agree here -- get an electrician to do the work.
In my area, first off, to do this kind of work -- a permit is required, only a master electrician can pull that particular permit, the home owner or journeyman electrician can not, a journeymen can conduct the work -- he\she just can not get the permit directly a master electrician has to do it for them..
If the meter seal is broken and pulled, with no permit and that breaker is replaced, not only will the supply authority refuse to re-connect the service, fines could be layed by not only the supply authority but the inspection authority and possible criminal charges against whomever conducted the work. If it's an electician, doing that could result in a suspension or loss of license. And in order to have that service re-established, you would then be required to have a proper permit and inspection conducted -- and the inspectors tend to be quite picky at that point..
In the case of Hot sequence metering if I ever need the system de-energized I always have to contact the supply authority to do so. It's just a big no-no to pull it yourself.. The only one time I did it was in an emergency situation and the supply authority was contacted immediatly about it. Even then they required a new permit and re-inspection to reconnect the service.
In the case of Cold sequence if I need the service shut off prior to the main disconnect again the supply authority has to do that, simply pulling the meter in Cold sequence will not shut the power off -- in fact it will result in two things, first off you are now stealing electricity, and secondly you have have open CT's that likely have not been shorted -- in which case you have a life threatining high voltage situation should you contact the terminals or wires comming off those CT's..
I just amazes me sometimes... Here's the thing -- when it comes to electrical work such as this here's my adivce -- "If you have to ask, your not qualified to do it"
ROFL! Louis, the OP is posting about a residence, not a power company substation!
With your active imagination, you'd be well advised to call a licensed electrician if you need to have your meter pulled...if only for your peace of mind. :-)
I will concede this: Opening a disconnect on a 1,000-Amp 4160 V line can be a rather exciting experience, but pulling a meter on a 100 or
200-Amp residential service is a bit less spectactular. Still, I agree that it is prudent to open all of the load breakers in the residence before pulling the meter, but often this isn't done (the electric company never bothers to do this when replacing meters...neither do they wear protective gear.
By the way, I've also done a great work on 480-V, 3-phase, industrial services, and when you pull the meter, the service panel is, without exception, dead. Indeed, this is precisely what the electric company does when you fall too far behind in paying your electric bill! :-)
This is sound advice. Advising others, especially those not qualified, too do dangerous and maybe even illegal practices could open one up too liability. NECA contractors employ qualified electricians, give them a call.
First of all, please post what in what area you live. Secondly, rules regarding pulling a meter are nearly always electric company regulations and have no ability to invoke legal action because there is simply no cause for such action. As a homeowner, I have had a need to pull meters at homes I have owned in New Jersey, New York, and Massachusetts, where it is clearly in the interest of the electric company to simply replace the seal and ignore the incident (unless of course it occurs on a regular basis or is associated with large changes in energy consumption). On top of this, I have yet to meet a licensed master electrician who goes to the bother of contacting the electric company before pulling a meter in the course of his/her work.
Well, that may be true in some foreign countries, but not in the US. Also, what is this bit about "re-connect the service", since it has absolutely nothing to do with pulling the meter. I don't know if you're a licensed master electrician, but if you are you are certainly aware that there is a major difference between pulling a meter and "disconnecting/reconnecting" service.
The fact is, if a homeowner is incapable of safely pulling a meter and replacing it, he is also incompetent to perform ANY electrical work in his home, which is obviously not the case except for a few exceptions.
The nonsense you are spouting is identical to that which was orchestrated by the conspiracy between electricians and municipal inspectors during the 1940s and 1950s, which has by now vanished from most parts of the US. In those days, money changed hands between the electricians and inspectors, but that hopefully is a thing of the past except in some places.
The inspectors should be quite picky, since many licensed electricians are trained and conditioned to do sub-standard work that often passes inspection solely as a result of their 'greasing' the inspector with a $20 bill.
That statement I agree with.
The big question is: "How does a homeowner who is not an electrician or EE learn the fundamentals?" Home Depot sells a book on electrical wiring that covers most of the points in question, as well as providing the electrical supplies to do jobs properly and in accordance with both the NEC and local codes. Accomplishing such work is readily within the grasp and ability of most homeowners.
Licensed master electricians and their cronies in government don't like this a bit, but with the declining affluence here in the US, homeowner self-maintenance is the wave of things both present and future. So, if you're a master electrician, better learn to cultivate more customer in new construction or industrial, else your income is going to go that of the way of the TV Repairman! :-)
I was referring to residential, and light commercial services. The meter related flash burning I have witnessed was power company service techs changing meters on 200 to 400 amp 240 volt direct metered services.
My "active imagination" was formulated after rendering first aid to various individuals after receiving flash burns from electrical appratus. Two specific cases involved removing meters from 200 to 400 amp 240 volt single phase services.
Located in the Pacific NW (I can't speak for other areas), a great number of the power company techs I've watched, treat removing a meter (even on a 100 amp resi. serv.) with a noticable level of caution, and seem to lack the cavilear approach some on this list suggest.
In my area (pacific NW) I haven't seen a direct metered service in voltages above 250 volts. To work on a service after pulling a meter without checking for voltage is asking for trouble with the large number of CT installitations, and direct metered with automatic bypass links.
Louis
************* remove fish in address to respond
Indeed, this is precisely what the electric company
You should have your license taken away for posting the advice if you want to call it that. And stating 'My "active imagination"' is another reason you should not even be a 'helper' in the electrical field. Your advice may very well get someone injured and possible killed. You need to think before you post. I am also suggesting a career change. And your spelling is terrible as well.
-- If it is not broken, I cannot fix it. If I screw with it, it will kill me. Payday is Friday.
It's Volts that jolts, but Mills that kills!
I was referring to residential, and light commercial services. The meter related flash burning I have witnessed was power company service techs changing meters on 200 to 400 amp 240 volt direct metered services.
My "active imagination" was formulated after rendering first aid to various individuals after receiving flash burns from electrical apparatus. Two specific cases involved removing meters from 200 to 400 amp 240 volt single phase services.
Located in the Pacific NW (I can't speak for other areas), a great number of the power company techs I've watched, treat removing a meter (even on a 100 amp resi. serv.) with a noticeable level of caution, and seem to lack the caviler approach some on this list suggest.
In my area (pacific NW) I haven't seen a direct metered service in voltages above 250 volts. To work on a service after pulling a meter without checking for voltage is asking for trouble with the large number of CT installations, and direct metered with automatic bypass links.
Louis
************* remove fish in address to respond
Indeed, this is precisely what the electric company
In article , senior snipped-for-privacy@alaska.com says... | In 40 years I have never heard of a breaker flipping back on. I think you | are pulling our leg. | | |
Then I respectfully suggest you go out and gain some experience with breakers.
I suspect, based on his description, that the breaker didn't "flip back on" as it probably had never reached an off position in the attempted switching operation. Occasionally I see situations where due to mechanical wear, or maladjusted external operating mechanisms, the MCCB handle isn't operated far enough to switch off, and when pressure is released it "flips" back to the full on position.
I have also seen a few MCCB with internal mechanical problems, or contact/s welded together, that wouldn't shut off even though you could operate the handle towards the off position.
The electric company allows licensed electricians to pull meters (usually have to phone it in) to do exactly what you need to have done. The electrician then replaces the meter, phones in that he is done, and the electric company will replace the seal at their convenience.
The electric company will (usually) not replace the breaker or anything else on the customer side of the meter. Liability issues are involved. The electrician has the liability insurance that covers this situation. The electric company does not (usually).
Matt, you asked a simple question about a trivially simple problem, and many people here gave you good advice.
If choose to look to the electric company for your solution that's just fine, but most of posting in reponse to your question assumed that you were of sufficient intelligence to both grasp and work with the information furnished to you to perform this simple job yourself.
In actuality, rather than calling the electric company, call your local licensed master electrician. Most of these guys delight in doing a trivially simple job for you at a $300 charge for an hours worth of labor an material that you can easily purchase for under $20 at Home Depot.
Then there is the downside to either calling the electric company or a licensed master electrician, either of which indirectly can require you to pay thousands of dollars if anything at all in the residence is found non-code compliant.
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