Re: Water powered cars exist!

Bert Hyman wrote:


According to both articles, taxing miles driven is coming from anti-tax Republican governor Tim Pawlenty, not the legislature.
For those that didn't read the articles, mileage could be measured with a black box using GPS, and tax rates could be higher for gas guzzlers. There is no actual legislation to do this even as a pilot project. There is a pilot project in Oregon.
-- bud--
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snipped-for-privacy@isp.com (Bud--) wrote in

A distinction without a difference.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | snipped-for-privacy@iphouse.com

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wrote:

Cheating this tax would be trivial. Just put an aluminum foil "hat" over the GPS antenna, It won't know if you are driving across the state or simply parked in the garage. The same would go for any system that is tied to the odometer, electronic or mechanical. Simply disconnnect the pickup
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com () wrote in

We could do that, but it would be wrong.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | snipped-for-privacy@iphouse.com

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I would be surprised if you can build a system that can't be hacked. In addition to the GPS black boxes, you have to read the data somehow - proposed to be filling stations - sounds like major cost. Plus the resistance to having someone elses GPS in your car, even if it only reads mileage. I will be real surprised if this thing flies.
-- bud--
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Yes-take also for granted that this thing must be millions of times implemented, also in each car (not just,say, big trucks)and it would be millions of time also being read, and all the data must be processed, too, so also a major operation and probably the country would just get peanuts.If someone has the money to buy a SUV, and pay for its gasoline, too, then he wouldn't mind a mileage tax, would he?
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
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Tzortzakakis Dimitrios wrote:

The argument for it, in the links in Bert's first 3-28 post, is that as cars get more fuel efficient they pay less gas tax than is their fair share. A completely battery electric car that is recharged from the power grid would pay no gas tax.
Just repeating the argument, not agreeing. Paying less tax is an incentive for low gas consumption. The question is how to fairly apportion the cost of roads.
-- bud--
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is
anti-tax
with
There
peanuts.If
The french TGV reached yesterday 574,4 km/h-a record made in the new Paris-Strasburg track.That's an all time world record for conventional trains.The french raised the voltage of the overhead grid from 25kV to 31kV, the train had two "power-heads"with 25,000 PS, larger wheels than usual.The TGV travels normally 300 km/h -faster than an airplane taking off-.The record for an conventional electric locomotive has siemens' Taurus-378 km/h.Read full article here-unfortunatly in german but still has interesting photos.
http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/0,1518,475388,00.html
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
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I wouldn't be surprised about anything coming out of MN, especially involving oil. Didn't they just elect an Islamic to the Senate to help run our country? For those who approve their action, read some history of Osman (and the Ottoman Empire), and the invasion of Spain in around 717 AD. Also, what about the pirates from Tripoli during Thomas Jefferson's time. Islam has been trying to conquer the world for 1500 years. Maybe they can tax us to death!

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snipped-for-privacy@cfl.rr.com (Graybeard) wrote in

No.
The folks of Minnesota's 5th district, Minneapolis and suburbs, elected a Muslim to the US House of Representatives.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | snipped-for-privacy@iphouse.com

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Abolish road tax altogther and put a duty on fuel to cover road fund.
That way you don't need to trach any millage.
The further you drive the more you contribute.
They should do this in the UK inslead of that silly 400 quid road tax for "gass guzzlers". In my house hold, the "gas guzzler" polutes the least and does least damage to the road as it hardy goes on the drive way, yet it is the high taxed car of the to that we own.
If the tax was on the fuel, the car that is use the most would be the one that is contributing the most....the way that it should be!
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snipped-for-privacy@AThotmailDOT.com (Vertuas) wrote in

The mileage tax is being proposed as an alternative to the fuel tax because newer gasoline fueled cars don't use enough, and future cars won't use any.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | snipped-for-privacy@iphouse.com

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I doubt this will actually get any traction. Everyone "knows" the oil companies are the only real evil and punishing their products will save the world. That certainly seems to be the mantra of the environmentalist cult for the last 40 years. I am pold enough to remember when the goal was to create a car that only exhausted water vapor and CO2 "the harmless gas in soda pop". Well they got close to that and now the soda pop gas in the new "smog". The common denominator is the hatred of the internal combustion engine, nothing else. It is evil to drive a gasoline powered car with negliogent emissions but devine to drive an electric that gets powered from a dirty coal fired plant because you can't see the smokestack from their house.
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In

We're dealing with politicians here; their only long-term interests involve more money for their friends.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN snipped-for-privacy@iphouse.com

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Seconded-please note that hydrogen is not a panachea.Hydrogen is *no* energy source, but mere an energy carrier.You still have to generate electricity by some way, to get hydrogen from water electrolysis.Electricity was, and will always be a noble and precious form of energy.Do you know that the infamous nuclear plant of Kozlodui in Bulgary has ceased working, and continental Greece is facing a blackout in summer?Because the hypocrites that used to run our country said "No to nuclear"But we imported power from Bulgaria, power generated from a Chernobyl-type soviet vintage power plant?If driving a car with an internal combustion engine is really evil, then on this earth there are billions of sinners. Just my two cents.
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
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wrote:

To give you a fair answer, I read in a german magazine that came to the conclusion:"The only *real* electric vehicles are either a tram or an E-Lok (electric train locomotive),since they draw their current directly from the grid" (with the cetenary, of course).(Sie nehmen den Strom direkt von der Leitung ab).Of course, since a car engine is rated in ~120 kW, it would be *very* inefficient to power it from batteries.With a cetenary, yes, but that's impossible for cars.(Not start talking about SUVs and limos, of course).Actually, internal combustion engines are a small miracle, making all this mass of iron, complete with 5 passengers and luggage, move at 80 mph...If you're looking for real electric vehicles, check the german ICE (Inter City Express) train (13,000 HP, normal traveling speed 200 km/h)the french TGV (max speed 300 km/h)the japanese shinkansen...
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
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wrote:

for
weight
line
much
expensive
the
shale
Yes-in fact all large diesel engines (above 10,000 HP) warm up with diesel oil and then burn mazut, which is a lot cheaper.(Diesel engines of this yield come in 2 stroke and 4 stroke versions, are used in railway, ships and electricity generating-look at www.wartsila.com)

is
Not worse that any supercritical steam technology-brown coal, natural gas, black coal and mazut-33% of the energy contained in the fuel is turned into electricity.The main advantage is running a 1500 MVA (~1100 MW) turbo generator for 2 years with just a couple of tons of uranium that otherise would decay in the ground or turned into nuclear bombs.No CO2 emission-only these nuclear wastes, but properly bound in glass or beton and kept out of reach can be manageable.So, there's no panachea or easy answer-just a combination of some large scale energy generating means.

I agree absolutely.

well
of
was
and
the
I don't know if you know that, but in Athens (mostly) there are taxis that run on LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas).You know the fires in the refineries is the surplus LPG being burnt?In my holiday home, we have an LPG range-almost two birds with one stone.We can cook when there's no power-and you can store LPG, unlike electricity.
-- Tzortzakakis Dimitrios major in electrical engineering mechanized infantry reservist dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
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