220 VAC Condenser Fan Auto Thermal Protection Experience

220 VAC Condenser Fan Auto Thermal Protection Experience
Typical Condenser Fan Spec from Grainger
["Motor,1/2 HP,HVAC
Condenser Fan Motor, Permanent Split Capacitor, Totally Enclosed Air-Over, HP 1/2, RPM 1075, Number of Speeds 1, Voltage 208-230, Full Load Amps 3.2-3.0, 48YZ NEMA Frame, Body Diameter 5 5/8 In, Service Factor 1.00, 60 Hz, Stud Mounting, Ball Bearings,
AUTO THERMAL PROTECTION,
Shaft Diameter 1/2 In, Shaft Length 6 In, CW/CCW Rotation, Capacitor Required 2GE78, Ambient 60 C, Insulation Class B, Mounting Shaft Position Up/Down, Length Less Shaft 5 1/2 In, Stud Pattern 3 5/8 In"] Have you ever seen a fire in one of these type fans?
Would the Auto Thermal Protection protect this fan if connected to 110 VAC?
Have you run a 220 VAC fan on 110 VAC for a purpose other than it was designed?
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snipped-for-privacy@aaronj.com wrote:

For a few minutes, one time, probably. The motor would turn slowly for 15 to 30 seconds, then shut off for about 5 minutes, then try again.

You cannot use this motor on 120 V power. It MIGHT actually come up to near synchronous speed on 120 V with ZERO load, but certainly will not with a load. And, since it is "air over" it MUST be run with a fan to cool the motor.
Since it is "totally enclosed", a fire is quite unlikely, but a very short life of intermittently running and stopping is for sure.
Jon
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C&P'd from alt.engineering
Depends on the fan motor really, I have run my furnace fan motor on reduced voltage to keep air moving about the house and through the electrostatic air cleaner. If its a belt drive affair I wouldnt run it on 120v however most direct drive motors are series poled motors meaning 6 or 8 poles are switched in and out for diffrent speeds eg 4 poles for 1750RPM no load speed.
Mine has been running on a switch relay for years switching to high speed 240v for demand then switching one side down via SPDT relay and moving one side down to neutral to slow the motor when the stack temp drops below the cutoff point. Havnt replaced the motor yet in 17 years now and I have been running the switching relay since I installed the heating plant, only oil the bearings a little more often.
Word of caution: If its a capacitor start motor I wouldnt reduce the voltage, the start winding will overheat.
17 YEARS is a fairly good test!
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snipped-for-privacy@aaronj.com wrote:

He said quite clearly it was a permanent split capacitor motor.
Yes, what you did has a much better chance on shaded-pole motors as used in a number of multi-speed furnaces. But, those motors are not TEAO, which was my clue.
Jon
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snipped-for-privacy@aaronj.com says...

If it's simply switching off power in response to an overtemp condition in the windings, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.

Yes, I've got a somewhat smaller 220V permanent split capacitor blower (1/8HP?) from a 19" rack operating on 120V circulating warm air in this room. It's been running just fine for at least 10 years and is very quiet operating at reduced speed. Supposedly at vey low speeds PSC motors are happier running full voltage in the capacitor winding and reduced voltage to the main winding only, but mine runs just fine at 1/2 voltage across both.
Ned Simmons
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Ned Simmons wrote:

Ned,
There are SO MANY techies out there who call us nuts without knowing the facts or even willing to learn about motors, etc.
All they can do is remove and replace and follow labels.
Trying to educate them is like talking to a wall.
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snipped-for-privacy@aaronj.com wrote:

Well, after cooking my share of motors with various "experiments", I've found out some of the things you can get away with, and some of those you may NOT be able to pull off. If you REALLY want to vary motor speeds, try a VFD and a 3-phase motor. That really WORKS!
Jon
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Jon Elson wrote:

Really works?
47 total years of successful running of 220 VAC motors on 110 VAC experience as reported
by 3 diffferent users is significant data that proves it really works.
If you cannot accept that, well OK.
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YOU were the one asking the original question ---- and after getting responses, you are telling everyone that they are wrong and you know from 47 years experience... why even ask??? Ken.
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Ken Sterling wrote:

Ken,
Please read a little more carefully.
3 guys, one for 17 years, and the other 2 for 10 years each, reported that they have run 220 VAC fans at 110 VAC; a total of 47 years experience. My experience is only 1 week since I hooked my fan up.
I have learned a lot from the responses to my question. I rely on the Reliance website for the theory, Grainger for the overload protection concept, and the 47 years of experience mentioned above.
Given all this, why would anyone choose to attack anyone else instead of addressing the facts?
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snipped-for-privacy@aaronj.com wrote:

OK, I have run 220 V "computer fans" on 120 V on several projects where I didn't need full output. I have run a number of Fasco-style blowers with 220 V motors on 120 V on occasion. Most of these had shaded-pole motors, which run quite well far from synchronous speed. I guess, now that I think about it, that at least one of these was a permanent split-capacitor motor,and it worked fairly well, too, although it did not run at a consistant speed. it would speed up and slow down in response to slight voltage and backpressure changes.
I guess when I was thinking of TEAO motor frames, I associated that with capacitor-start motors with a centrifugal starting switch. Those obviously will not run at reduced speed, as the start winding will stay on all the time.
Jon
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I am reading carefully.... the following is a quote from you: "Ned, There are SO MANY techies out there who call us nuts without knowing the facts or even willing to learn about motors, etc. All they can do is remove and replace and follow labels. Trying to educate them is like talking to a wall."
Which kinda makes you sound like the great guru of motoreze and then I give you the quote you made from above: " My experience is only 1 week since I hooked my fan up."
I guess I just don't know on which side of the fence you really stand, and to be honest with you... it's starting to sound a little like a troll, jiggling the line a little bit to try to get a few hits.... I'm not interested, anyway. Thanks. Ken.
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