Adventures under the laundry sink

After I'd had my first cuppa this morning, Mary informed me that she had some unpleasant news. I'm never quite sure whether she's tweaking me or not, which is part of what makes life fun. She wasn't this time: there was again a leak under the laundry sink. Said leak was not near the repair site from a few months ago but only a couple of inches away. Awright, so it's time to replace the whole pipe, which entailed moving a couple of jugs from under the sink. Awright, maybe 30 jugs of various and sundry chemicals. You know the stuff that accumulates in a laundry room, right? Bleach, detergent, gallon of hydrochloric acid, gallon of glacial acetic acid, half a dozen assorted phosphoric-acid metal treat soups, Birchwood-Casey aluminum blackener, jug of caustic metal cleaner ... the usual stuff. I also had to move the washer and water softener a bit to gain access. The other end, near the water meter, was gonna be painful no matter what because it's under the laundry sink. My old bod doesn't fold up as easily as it once did, and then there's unfolding. But the leak wasn't gonna fix itself and bandaids clearly wouldn't suffice. Many modern plumbers don't solder copper plumbing, they use some kinda compression fittings that don't seem expensive compared to the labor charge for installing them, even though they're priced like goods sold in a jewellry store. Bah! I don't trust them newfangled gizmos. Probably last as long as it takes the plumber's Rolls-Royce van to clear the driveway. Only took me two trips to Home Depot. If I lived further away I'd plan more carefully, but it's only a couple of miles. On first trip I got some pipe, a 90 elbow and a 45 elbow. Got home, started disassembling. Hm, the pipe terminates in one end in a solder-type gate valve. The valve seems to be OK but sometimes re-soldering used plumbing can present problems, gate valves are only about 7 bux and this one must be at least 30 years old. Back to Depot to get a new valve. Also got a new ground clamp for two bux. I'd debated getting 5' of pipe because I was pretty sure that would suffice, but a 10 footer was only 3 bux more (12 vs 9) and 3 bux is cheap insurance five minutes after the store closes with my job incomplete. Good call, Foreman. I cut the main run, 48-1/2", and then I cut the short dogleg 7". Pieced it together. Didn't fit, not even close. WTF??? Oooohhhh! After I'd carefully cut the 48-1/2" length I'd then cleverly cut the short piece out of the measured piece. Measure twice, cut once -- then do over because I'd carefully measured and cut from the wrong stock. Oh well -- I had my $3 insurance policy! The soldering was completely uneventful this time and the joints look better than most pro work he said modestly. Wiped joints even. Damn, I'm good! OK, so I use tin-silver solder that costs about 25 bux a pound, so what? Pardon me for knowing what works, right? The antimony-based lead-free solder sold for plumbing is a lot cheaper and it works reasonably well on new work if everything is perfect -- but things are seldom perfect in repair jobs. The tin-silver stuff melts at about the same temp (430F) as the antimony-based lead-free stuff, but it wets and flows on reasonably clean copper even better (considerably better) even than the old lead-tin solder. It also wets and flows readily on brass, steel and stainless, and it's considerably stronger than lead-tin. Heat joint gently until a swipe with the solder leaves a streak, heat a bit more, touch solder to work. WHAM, it melts and flows all round and into the joint like water. It's good shit, Maynard! Job done, tenuously turn on water. This is always a moment of truth. Two leaks. Phew! Leaks are obligatory in repair work. If there were no leaks it would probably mean that the house will collapse tomorrow just after the meteor strike. Both leaks were associated with the union-like joints associated with the water meter. A bit of heavy lifting (senior grade) with my biggest croissant wrench fixed those, still had a one drop-per-second drip. I'd about decided to let it drip and the hell with it when I realized where it was actually originating. It was the packing nut around the stem of the main shutoff valve, which I'd shut off to do the job. The old nut probably got backed off a bit when I re-opened that valve. It just needed a bit of snugging. That happens with old nuts... Voila and hoooahhh, we're as dry as a dissertation on Cleopatra's cosmetics.

Post-mortem on old pipe: something had been eating it. Wall thickness was about .026". I could easily bend it over my knee. Might have been electrolytic, don't know. New pipe will surely outlast me so I don't care. Tomorrow I shall carry all of the tools back up the stairs that I carried down the stairs today in many trips.

Reply to
Don Foreman
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I rapidly became a fan of 21st century plumbing stuff! Shark-Bites are your friend!

Reply to
Buerste

Shark-Bites are very pricey bandaids for those who can't solder.

21st century plumbing is plastic, not copper.
Reply to
Don Foreman

The last plumbing job I did was kitchen sink/disposal/dishwasher after cabinet mods, floor and new countertops. I wrote a list of what had to hook up and the sizes and lengths. At Home Depot, the guy in plumbing was an actual PLUMBER! I got a quick lesson, a cart full of pieces parts and headed out. Job time, start to finish including all the cutting was less than an hour. The longest time spent on the really, really short tail piece on the non-disposal sink. The shark bites only transition the old copper to the plastic. I did the dishwasher supply in copper then a long reinforced braided plastic kit. To do this the old way would have taken another two hours I'd bet. But it did cost a little bunch more.

Reply to
Buerste

Time is money And we do what we feel comfortable doing.

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

I do hope you replaced the gate valve with a ball valve. one year in service and that gate valve will never seal leak free again.

Only thing worse than a gate valve is a valve with a washer in it, "stop and waste" or "globe valve".

Thank You, Randy

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Reply to
Randy

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I had stocked up the old leaded plumber's solder. Till the water softener repair this summer. Julie got me some new lead free stuff - total s**te it is. I had a stone bitch of a time unsoldering and re soldering an old hard water bypass valve. Well, the job was done and I forgot about it till now.

OK Mcmaster lists a whole bunch a solders on 3337 and 3338.

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I even see leaded stuff. Do you suggest 7791A11? Or is one of the leaded solders on the next page just like the old stuff I liked and used for the last 40 years?

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

Acids under the sink ?!? Can you say "bomb timer"?

Reply to
Denis G.

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:12:17 -0500, the infamous Don Foreman scrawled the following:

Oh, no! You got her _pregnant_?

No, but some SuperTape would! Sez so on TeeVee, I heard. I don't watch that crap. Stretch it around the leak and it cures to itself. Great stuff. I saw some at the County Fair and then bought it for 1/2 price (eBay, of course.) I have a couple of pairs of pliers with it on the handles and they're nicer to use now.

P.S: Grok the folding/unfolding crap. BTDT, got the Chiro bills for it.

Good call, as you'll soon state.

I did that with a section of PT 2x6 lumber last month. Smarts, doesn't it?

And Oh-So modest! Just ask ya.

Sounds good, but is it as flexible as full Leaded? Ever had a joint crack on ya?

Dat's dry, dude.

How often do you dispose of glacials and other hot stuff down that drain?

Why not have Mary do that for you? You already got your exercise this week, but she hasn't, right?

P.S: Tanks fer da discourse. 'Twas fun, as usual.

-- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides

Reply to
Larry Jaques

And for those who read newspapers and know that solder sweating has caused hundreds of fires, some HUGE, and some deaths. Locations to be soldered are not always out on a bench held in a vise with nothing around. I have used SharkBites, like them, am going to use them wherever they are safer, and would recommend them to anyone.

It's kind of hard giving up something you've used for sixty years, even though progress, science and modern times gives us something better. But if using a wooden club and a rock still works for you, what the hell?

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

I always usually leave the doors open and the tools there for AT LEAST one week. SWMBO doesn't like it, so I usually go down daily and bang a couple of pipes and tell her I had to sop up a slow leak, and boy, wasn't it a good idea that I left the tools down there.

She doesn't believe it, but it keeps me from schlepping up and down, and gets me back to DRAG RACING programs and the like a little sooner.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

I'm afraid I completely neglected considering the risk of igniting the nearby concrete block wall, thereby causing a fatal conflagration that would undoubtedly contribute to global warming. My only excuse is that the paper I read seems to have been notably remiss in reporting such incidents.

Reply to
Don Foreman

7791A11 looks like what I used, 96Sn4Ag. I don't think I paid that much for mine but I've had mine for a while.
Reply to
Don Foreman

SWMBO won't let me keep them in the nursery.

Reply to
Don Foreman

I don't know for sure but I suspect so. I also suspect that it's more flexible than the antimony-based lead-free stuff.

No, and I've soldered a lot of stuff (non-plumbing related) with it.

Never. And anyway, it was the cold water pipe that failed, not the drain. I'm thinking it was some kind of electrolytic corrosion because there's a ground wire shunting the water meter and I got some sparks off it when I reconnected it.

Reply to
Don Foreman

low quality plumbing is plastic is what you really mean.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Let the Record show that Don Foreman on or about Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:00:10 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

You expect the liberal media to accurately report such things? When they are owned by big Corporations which suppress The Truth(tm). The fact remains that some thousands of years ago, the Sahara was a thriving Eco-system, when an evil capitalists plumber set fire to a concrete wall while building a Pyramid Factory, and the resulting conflagration not only burned down the entire Sahara Forest but started the Anthrogenetive global warming too! Ended the Ice Ages. Killed off the cute wooly mammoths and sabre tooth tigers too

tschus pyotr .

- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

The cut off valves under bathroom sink were replaced a few years ago, probably with whatever was cheapest at home depot by the building people.

So far, the gasket in one has fallen apart, and comes out as black soot and chunks, and this is on the cold water side.

the hot water one seems ok. I need to test the toilet tank one next.

As for the same types of valves at the kitchen sink, both are broken, the oval handles spin freely (on their plastic shafts of all things), but they do nothing. I'm surprised they don't leak at this point.

I'm not even sure where you would buy a good valve these days, that's not a ball valve.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

You don't, from what I can tell. I replaced all of the globe shutoff valves in my house with ball valves. No more crumbling gaskets.

I got them at Home Depot.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I must admit that I still use tin/lead solder.

Shock! Horror! Probe!

So bloody what. The house next door still has a lead water main and it hasn't killed any of them yet :-|

Mark Rand RTFM

Reply to
Mark Rand

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