Anybody here make a magnetic brake?

I am working on a 5th axis for the mill. I think it will need a brake. I'm not sure if the servo motor will be able to hold position for some
operations. I have looked at magnetic particle brakes and they ain't cheap. So I'm thinking about making one. Or some type of electromagnetic brake. The brake, when actuated, must not cause any motion of the axis, and I'm just not sure what would work best. Eric
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On Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:20:28 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

How much space do you have, and how often will it be locked and unlocked?
What is the rotational range of motion required?
Lots of choices, much fewer depending on the constraints.
A dirt cheap/simple brake would be a few interleaved plates, alternating be tween turning with one side or the other, and a clamp (solenoid? screw clam p with gear motor?) clamping the stack together. Would impart no motion, an d could be in the clamped state with no power applied.
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:20:28 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

I've had several occasions to put brakes on servos, and a couple where it was important not to disturb the position. It's not as easy as it sounds, depending on what "any" in "must not cause any motion of the axis" means. The fussiest one I did involved locking a table on a direct drive servo on a machine to dril tiny radial holes in a part. It took a couple tries to get the disturbance under a few tenths. The final design was a disc brake with the pads mounted on flexures (flexure = zero free play) and actuated by an air cylinder.
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wrote:

I have been thinking about the pads mounted on flexures but then started to think about magnetics since I already will have power going to the 5th axis servo. Eric
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On Jan 31, 12:20 pm, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

I have never made one. But looked at Herbach and Rademan and saw they have clutches from Deltran and Mitsubishi. Doubt if they are robust enough, but googled Deltran and found that Danaher offers a guide to Deltran clutches and Brakes. So you might look at Herback and Rademan and get some part numbers . And then look at the guide to Clutches and Brakes.
I always look at what is available and see how they did it before designing my own.
Dan
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snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Back when I worked on CNC machines, the axis locks for 4th (or whatever) axes were normally air or air/over hydraulic actuated when there were space constraints.
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On 1/31/2013 9:20 AM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

You might investigate the magnetic clutch on an automobile air conditioning pump. That has bearings, and a really strong 12 volt electromagnet. A good start for you, anyway.
Paul
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:49:03 -0800, Paul Drahn

THOSE I'm familiar with. The action might cause a rotational hit since the clutches are usually on spring-steel strips. But they're strong once engaged.
I was thinking disc brake style, too. The disc would be mounted to the lead screw (if there is one) and opposing solenoids would grab it from either side.
Eric, if added mass wouldn't be a problem, might you increase the servo size, resulting in a higher holding capacity and bypassing the need for a brake?
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On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:20:28 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

A wheel chair motor.
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I don't know what would be best either, but would a pneumatic disc brake work if it could be engaged slowly so as to not over power the servo?
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    DC servos? What amount of motion can you tolerate. I would expect with steady/slowly-changing loads no more than one or two encoder steps of motion before it was forced to be right again. (Not sure where your encoder is relative to the motor, but if you don't have enough backlash between the axis and the motor for brake to do it, I would not worry about the ability of the encoder/servo pair to hold position.
    Now -- if there are serious pulse loads, then you might have a little more error before the servo loop could fix it.
    Note that at least some DC servos and AC servos as well have built-in brakes which the controller has to power to release prior to motion.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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wrote:

Grewetings DoN, There will be pulsed loads. Such as when an end mill is spotfacing and/or counterboring a curved surface. I don't know yet if I will be contour milling with the 5th axis. Probably not at first. I just need to be able index the parts. To do this I will be using an M code to send a signal to an Arduino. The Arduino will then command the 5th axis to move. I'm still learning how to use the Arduino and the LCD touchscreen display I bought for the Arduino. I still need to figure out how to get the signals from the encoder to the servo amp. I don't know yet if slip rings will do or if I need to get some type of wireless setup. But I need to approach this project with what I do best first, and that's mechanical stuff. I think I have the drive figured out, now I need the brake. Eric
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    [ ... ]

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    The part of the encoder which requires connections should not be moving relative to the motor -- so cables to the motor and cables to the encoder could be strapped together -- but shield the encoder cables to avoid noise from the motor from introducing errors.
    The encoder (on a motor, at least) is typically a slotted disc (or a glass/quartz disc with slots printed on it by evaporation of metal). This is mounted to the back end of the motor shaft. Bolted to the back of the motor housing is a set of LEDs and photodetectors (along with matching slots in a stationary part). Wires go from these to the Arduino or whatever you use.

    Just plain cables for the encoder connections.
    Now -- if you want the brake which started this, you typically have a brake disc on the shaft, with a spring mounting (not much give) and an electromagnet mounted tot he motor to attract the disc to contact a friction surface.

    Adding both encoders and a brake to the back end of the motor will be a bit tricky. An alternate encoder is one to directly measure the motion of whatever -- I'm assuming a rotary table or something similar -- and measuring at the table instead of the motor means that you don't have as much resolution for the same encoder. For linear motion, there are linear encoders which mount to the moving part, with a reading head bolted to the stationary part -- well sort of stationary, such as the head bolted to the saddle of a mill, and the encoder bar (which has no wires) bolted to the edge of the table so the table pulls the bar past the reading head.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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