Best way to level lot for pole barn

I have a cheap laser level. How would I use it to check the level of the ground?

Why do you want it level? Where will the water go when it rains? Most designs of this type call for an elevated floor with clear drainage all around; otherwise you just built a big mudhole. Bugs

What should I use to hold in the fill material then?

What do you mean? I want the floor level so I can make sure the gravel is level, then build my pole bar around it.

On 10 Mar 2005 05:44:06 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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Be careful here. It is easy to try to level with existing ground and end up below level. Your shed then becomes a shallow swimming pool at the wrong times. Your gravel being brought in is the better idea. Work from just (150mm) above natural ground and go out flat from there. That way you have a consistent floor material, and your inlet comes up to it. You _will_ be amazed at how much gravel you need though! :-<

10 m * 10 m , starting at one corner at 150mm and having a max fall of 0.5 metres is mmmmm.... 20 m^3 with 45 degree fall on the batters? You may get away with "local dirt" for a bottom layer or two, but be careful, and check first if you are every going to concrete the floor, or the authorities are ever going to delve around.

Compact your worked "natural" ground very thoroughly before you start adding.

What do you call "gravel"? I am concerned that it will _look_ compacted, if it's true gravel, but have no binding agent. This will not compact well. There is usually a requirements for "fines" to bind the the material. Here we use "yellow sand" a coarse sand with some clay content for 99% of floors.

My FIL was a granno worker (cement floors) now retired, and a bloody good one. His way (and mine when I had to do floors for him when he did stuff for me ) to final level a floor was to create levels all through it with rebar hammered in, then get in there with a shovel and shuffle the gravel around to the levels. Work in maybe 1.5 - 2 metres squares. Compact, then level again. Compact. It's up to you and the local authorities as to how much of that you do! It's hard work, but that final level with a machine is a real art that not many have mastered. You can also work at your own pace.

Someone suggested using 2x around the edges and fill on the batter sides. Sounds good to me. 2x6 with hammered in rebar every few feet will hold. If you kept adding levels, and also supporting the down side, you could go quite a height like that. But basically, build the pad a lot larger than the shed (a metre all round is good, with 45 degrees max on the batter sides). Then level the bit you want.

He used a dumpy level. You could probably hire one with a staff. You have read all the stuff about water levels and laser levels. They all have their ups and downs. Laser leverl are useless outside unless you have a sensor. But tye would be OK in a pre-built shed.

Yes.

I agree with those comments. If you ever plan to install concrete, then the subgrade needs to be compacted to 95% of Standard Proctor, the fill material should be Base Course, as we call the graded material on this side of the pond, also at 95% Proctor. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should hire an engineering firm to set the grades and inspect the work. Expensive, yes, but cheaper than doing it all over when everything fails in a few years. Bugs

Laser levels, like all levels, need to be tested and adjusted before depending on them for a level line. The so-called peg test only takes a few minutes and assures you that the level is truly in adjustment. Use two points about 100 ft. apart for temporary bench marks. Set the level up close to one of the benchmarks. Take a rod reading on both benches and note the difference in elevation. Then move the level to a point near the other benchmark. Take another set of readings. The difference between the readings is approximately twice the error of the level. Adjust the level until both sets of readings are exactly the same. Then you have a level outlook on the world. Bugs

Exactly, the word "laser" makes it sound like no errors are possible even on an el-cheepo version.

Be aware that a water level can give false readings also. Just think what happens on a sunny day when the water in the two ends may be of different temperatures.

George (another George) Willer

On 12 Mar 2005 04:11:41 -0800, "Bugs" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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Sorry, but can you enlarge on this? Not having a go.

Firstly, the lasers we are talking about would not be anywyere near visible at more than maybe 20 feet.

But apart from that I am not sure what you mean in your description. Are you talking about setting u0 the level, or calibrating it? With

-some- of these levels, I am not sure they -can- be calibrated.

If you move the level, and place it somewhere else, it will be out of whack again. What's a rod reading, and how do you ascertain the difference in elvation unless you have a level to refer to.

On 12 Mar 2005 04:03:57 -0800, "Bugs" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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I think that for most backyard sheds, you are being a bit harsh. I have never had a compaction test done for shed soil, although I did for a house.

Maybe we are lucky. This particular sand we use sets almost like sandstone even without compaction if you wet it well and let it dry. Compacting it while damp really settles it down, and unless you have a critical application hardness testing is not done.

What I described is a test of the level vial/s in relation to the sight/laser beam. Adjustment is available on better quality levels. If they can only be read at 20 ft., then test them at that range. The test only involves measuring the difference in elevation between two solid points. The rod reading is simply a meter stick or tape measure set on the benchmark to measure the height of the level [laser line] above it. The level has to be adjusted carefully each time it is set up. If you have a more expensive 'automatic' level, the test checks the calibration of the pendulum mechanism, and should be adjustable. It's basically the same thing as testing a carpenter's level by leveling it up and reversing it to see if the bubble is true. If this is still too complicated, find a surveyor willing to take a few minutes and run the peg test. Bugs

On 13 Mar 2005 06:32:23 -0800, "Bugs" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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Nooo, it's not complicated. But I think you are aiming above the OP's "cheap laser level". I was careful to ask whether you were referring to calibration, which in my opinion is what you are describing. I could see the poor guy trying to actually set the -vials- on the level by your method, from your original description.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:04:11 +0800, OldNick vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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Bum! More like 35m3. sorry.

Yes, the bubble/s are probably not adjustable. Someone bought me one of the 'cheapies' and it's pretty primitive but the laser can be seen over a hundred feet. Beam spread is a problem, but I'm going to make it a little tripod base with three setscrews to use on a project I have. I'll probably put some correction marks on the bubble vial to true it up. I have several surveying instruments that can be used to set the bench marks, then I'll set the laser level to the BM's. Bugs

There's a simple way to check the calibration error on a level or a transit.

Shoot a line from one established height index to a distant pole. Then turn the level or transit 180 degrees, and shoot back from the new mark to the original index. Any calibration error will show (doubled) in the second shot, and allow you to adjust (if it's adjustable) back toward the correct alignment. Since it depends upon simple geometry and physics rather than a "standard level", it requires no special tools, and is as accurate as any method available.

When the result of the second shot is on the original index, you're "spot on".

LLoyd

On 14 Mar 2005 05:20:14 -0800, "Bugs" vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

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Well it has to different from what I have seen, if you can see the beam on a target at 100', on a bright day.