build yer own lower

Record cold and snow in MN. I'll soon be locked in the shop for the
duration of winter and been casting about for a worthy project.
I came accross this:
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Is this a good forging to start with? Anybody else done this? Any
heads up for problems? Any fixturing suggestions? I'll plan on
building quality fixtures to knock 'em out on the CNC mill.
Karl
Reply to
Karl Townsend
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Drawing and machining a prototype lower was one of the first major projects I had in Solidworks. I've always wanted to go back and redraw it because I know there are better ways to get-er-done now. We started out with a solid block of material. iirc it was at least 12 ops to get it all done. Well, almost all done.. had to leave a couple holes out since the ATF wasn't here to serialize it.
Reply to
tnik
Here's a pic of the model..
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Reply to
tnik
Karl, just curious what are you trying to accomplish, build a particularly accurate or otherwise high performing rifle, or just make something that is legal and does not require a 4473?
i
Reply to
Ignoramus7943
As I understand it you can make one, but it is yours forever. You may not legally sell it to anyone, ever. Cannot even be passed on to your son/daughter. Or am I wrong?
Thank You, Randy
Remove 333 from email address to reply.
Reply to
Randy
I thought that the above is exactly correct.
i
Reply to
Ignoramus7943
I believe that is incorrect.
From the research I've done so far, it appears that you can build your own firearms that are consistent with those you could legally purchase at your local gun shop, are not required to put serial numbers on them (though it's recommended), and can indeed sell or transfer them with normal paperwork *occasionally*. If you were to sell or transfer too often your transfer paperwork would be rejected and you'd be told to get a manufacturer's license.
It is different if you want to produce an NFA firearm, which while the paperwork still refers to "firearm" generically, excludes "normal" firearms and only covers short barrel rifles, silencers and other specific NFA arms. Even those can be transferred with more restrictions.
Of course if you plan to start one of these projects, you should do your own research to both verify that information as well as be sure you understand every quirk of the related laws and paperwork. Also if you plan any of these projects you need to check local/state laws and perhaps move to a more favorable state (hint Iggy).
Reply to
Pete C.
"Pete C." wrote in news:4d18ae6c$0$15842 $ snipped-for-privacy@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:
restrictions.
My understanding is that the BATF has gotten extra cranky in recent years. There are cases where they have nailed gunsmiths for restoring old/dmamged firearms because they crossed some imaginary threshold of how much can be original, and how much can be replaced before it is considered "manufacturing". Presumably, these problems were for single firearms, but they were also being sold, or at least the work was done for someone else. I belong to the American Gunsmithing Association, and their latest magazine had a warning in it to someone who was attempting what sounded like a simple restoration job.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
Yes, I believe there is a pretty solid line between doing gunsmithing as a business and manufacturing a firearm, and building your own firearm personally and then at some later date selling or otherwise transferring it, perhaps to fund your next project.
Reply to
Pete C.
Illinois is not as gun friendly as Texas, but the laws concerning homemade firearms are probably quite similar (mostly federal law that applies).
I would personally like to know whether a homemade gun can ever be transferred, which I thought was not the case. You may be right if this thread is to be believed:
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i
Reply to
Ignoramus7943
"Pete C." wrote in news:4d18b5d5$0$15847$ snipped-for-privacy@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:
I think the difficulty is that the line is not "solid". It is open to interpretation of the BATFE agent who decides to make your life miserable. I'm sure there are plenty of agents who are decent hard working folks trying to stopp the bad guys. There are also plenty of cases where agents have decided to make a name for themselves by going after someone when common sense would say the case was totally bogus. The resulting legal hassles (or worse) can ruin your day/month/year/life.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
Any special reason you left the bottom of the mag well parallel to the top? Some current mags wouldn't fit.
ATF doesn't need to serialize it nor do you if you're building it for your own use. You can't sell, give away or otherwise transfer it unless you have a manufacturer's license, which is when the serial number becomes necessary, which the manufacturer does, not the ATF.
David
Reply to
David R. Birch
That was the way the customer wanted it. I had to reverse engineer one that he brought us. I was lucky enough to find a dxf of an AR-15 so I could get the proper hole placements and tolerances.
Exactly, this was an actual job we were looking at getting so if we went into production of the parts (iirc) an ATF agent (or someone that could do it) would have needed to be present during the final operation and serialization.
Reply to
tnik
In article , snipped-for-privacy@enter.net says..
From the BATF. This does not address the inheritance issue, but perhaps the cited regulations touch on it:
Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
Reply to
DT
This is normally interpreted as meaning you can build a firearm for personal use as long as you do not build it to sell. If things change later on, you could legally sell it or give it away, or pass it to your heirs. The fine line is whether you build it with intent to sell (or otherwise transfer) from the start. To me that means you can't even machine an extra lower for your son, but you could make one for yourself, then later give it to your son. How much later might be the make or break.
I have several of those blank forgings. All I need is time and talent ;)
Reply to
burkheimer
I talked this project over with my son. He's concerned that the forgings will vary a lot in size making fixturing hard/impossible. Have you taken measurements on yours?
Karl
Reply to
Karl Townsend
No particular reason. I just need a challenge. Saying, "I made it myself" gives a bit of pride. certainly not doing this to save $.
Karl
Reply to
Karl Townsend
Karl, I wanted to ask a question about manufacturing methods for the Ar-15 receiver.
Look at this:
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He had to reclamp his piece numerous times to make it on a CNC mill. I wonder, how much of that is due to lack of the 4th axis.
My feeling on this is that with a suitable 4th axis, this receiver could be done in 2-3 reclampings, or perhaps even one. With a 4th axis, clamp once, and then turn various sides towards the spindle to be machined.
Am I making any sense?
i
Reply to
Ignoramus7943
I had not seen this site, thanks.
You have a valid point, but you lose so much rigidity that your machining speeds would be killed.
Most parts are manufactured with a real eye on fixturing. That is ways to quickly remount the part for the next operation. With a good fixture design, you can go from one op to the next in a few seconds.
I had not seen this website, thanks for the link.
Reply to
Karl Townsend
So what happens when you die?
Wes
Reply to
Wes

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