Car repair question:

Is there a way you can get a straight shot at the end of the shaft the balancer is on with a drill, by removing the radiator or something? If you can, and the shapes of things permits doing this, you can drill a hole "in the crack" parallel to the shaft, keeping half of the diameter of the hole in the balancer hub and half in the shaft, then whack in a tight fitting dowel pin. I'd expect a 5/16" or 3/8" diameter pin ought to do it.

When I learned this technique from an old toolmaker named Sven years ago, he called the pin a "Dutchman", why that name, I never learned.

Sven also tought me that if he'd reamed a dowel pin hole just a little too loose, he'd grab a salt shaker from the lunch break table, mix up some strong salt water, put a few drops in the hole and press the pin home. He swore that by the next day it'd be "Tighter than a bull's ass in fly season."

Following on that, maybe degreasing the surfaces and adding salt water before fastening things down would insure a tight fit if you are willing to forgo easy removal in the future, considering your friend's mechanic's remark about the car not being worth doing that to.

Desperate times take desperate measures.....

Jeff (Who denies giving the advice above. )

if you could get a used balancer put it on if you cannot drill and tap the crank tack weld it a couple times chance are you will not have to take it off anyway!

Tig weld the thing on the end of the crank?

Jim

I would not trust MIG on something as thick as a crankshaft, but you may be more skilled with MIG than I am. I don't think I'd weld on a crankshaft in situ for a variety of reasons.

Here's what I did when the Chevy 350 in my Blazer had a very similar problem. I made a jig to hold a Dremel in desired position relative to the crank, still in the engine which was still in the truck. The jig had a slide and a jackscrew (piece of allthread) that could move the Dremel axially w.r.t. the crank. I put a stack of abrasive cutoff wheels one keyslot thick on the Dremel, put a rag around the crank seal to keep abrasive dust out, and went thru two tubes of little abrasive wheels making a new slot on the opposite side of the crank from the one that was barfed. It took a couple of hours under the truck, jacking it back and forth and replacing wheels. That made a new keyway that a new key fit tap-in snug. I was lucky that an integral number of wheels stacked up to just the right thickness. I didn't expect that, but it turned out that way.

Knocked the burrs off the barfed keyway, put on a better harmonic balancer from the junkyard. Problem solved. Drove the truck for several years after that, then sold it to another guy who drove it a while longer and then sold it to someone else for all I know.

"Al A." wrote: (clip) Anyone know if this is a common problem with Subarus? (clip)Any thoughts, comments,(clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not on this specific repair, but...I just bought a used Subaru, based partly on the advice of a friend who is driving his second one, after giving the first to his daughter. Checking Consumer Reports, their repair and reliability over the years seems outstanding.

Ever try to drill or machine a crankshaft or truck axel? The center isn't too bad but the outer surfaces are carbide country. That's true of Chevy anyway, don' know nottink about Subaru.

Use Lock-tite sleave retainer.... Its what its made for....

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:07:05 -0500, Don Foreman

||Here's what I did (snip) || making a new slot on the opposite side of the ||crank from the one that was barfed. || That made ||a new keyway that a new key fit tap-in snug.

||Knocked the burrs off the barfed keyway, put on a better harmonic ||balancer from the junkyard.

Seems to me tha having a HB 180 degrees out from intended mounting would render it inneffective. Most I've seen have an assymetric weight cast into the balancer, which gives the assembly the correct... balance. Texas Parts Guy

Long ago and far away, I had the same problem with a twin-cam Fiat. What I did was use Loctite sleeve retainer (liberal dose) And crossdrilled and pinned the snout. That held for longer than it had a right to, considering the way I abused that poor motor.

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:06:11 -0400, Al A. wrote:

||Hi All, || I also posted this question to alt.autos.subaru, but here at RCM we ||know EVERYTHING, so here goes: || || I have a chance to pick up (for near zero cost) a 1994 Subaru Legacy ||sedan. It has a 4 Cyl. enging,75K miles,generally decent body, etc. ||not sure of too much else at this point. I'm going for a closer look ||later in the week, but hoped to gather some data first. || || Like all such deals, something is wrong with it. In this car, the ||harmonic balancer came loose about 3 months ago, and it messed up the ||slot in the shaft that the woodruff key for the balancer fits into. At ||the time, the owners mechanic advised that pulling the crank to fix ||the slot was not a viable option, but offered (as a no cost and ||"what-have-you-got-to-lose" type of repair) to put the key back in and ||fix it in place with JB Weld. || || Well, it held for about 3 months. last week, it came loose again, and ||seems to have scarred up the ID of the balancer. He went out and ||bought a new car, and offered me this one on a "gimmie whatever it is ||worth to you" sort of offer. || || My thinking is that I could put a new key in what remains of the ||slot, and zap in the missing metal from the slot with the MIG machine ||and dremel to fit. Or maybe make a fake key out of something the mig ||filler will not stick to (graphite, copper or whatever) put in place ||and weld around it. Then pull it out, leaving a vague woodruff keyseat ||shaped hole. Or gimmie a better idea. || || I would likely need to replace the balancer as it looked pretty ||gouged up, at least at a glance. || || I work with the owner, and a pretty good friends with him, and when ||the balancer is not flopping around, the car runs great. If I could ||effect a decent repair, this car would make a great cheap to run ||around towner. || || Anyone know if this is a common problem with Subarus? How do you guys ||rate the likelyhood of a sucessful repair? Any thoughts, comments, ||alternative ideas for repairs, etc? || ||Thanks, your input is much appreciated. ||AL

Texas Parts Guy

Loc-tite will help in this situation, but it won't fix it by itself, the harmonic vibrations are too great. I know this because I've tried it as a paddock repair. I have cut new slots, but often the slot and key extends back and picks up the timing chain pulley as well. I kind of like the drill and pin ideas, or the tig weld it ideas. For a free car, tig welding and remembering to tell anyone who might have to take it apart seems like a good way to go.

Mostly Vee engines need counterweighted flywheels or balancers, not in-line or horizontally opposed engines, but I would hate to call that a rule...

Brian

The subarus I worked on ( as a dealership mechanic) were internaly balanced. Pat

Until he has to change the timing belt, water pump, or front seal.

-- Joe

-- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff snipped-for-privacy@wpi.edu Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

He'll never have to do any of those things, if he can't drive the car. It's junk as it, right?

Jim

Do any of those things is what i thougt drive it till the wheels fall off

Yeah but. Subaru's go through front crank oil seal like water...

Al A. wrote: In this car, the

The harmonic balancer gets a whack from the crank every other revolution when the front cylinder fires. So, you need a pretty secure fix to the problem. One way may be to use a small grinder and cut the keyseat up to the next size, or go to an Imperial-size key which might be the next size up form the (presumably) metric key. If you can find somebody with a shaper or shaping attachment, that might be the easiest way to enlarge the slot in the balancer. But, for a one-off, you could file it, too. You'd need to test fit frequently, as you need the key to fit VERY tight, or it will just bang the slot apart again.

My best plan would be to get a tapered pin of a suitable size, and either drill the existing keyway and then ream with a tapered pin reamer, or put the old key in just to align things and drill a new hole and ream the taper in a new spot. You will likely have to bastardize a new taper pin reamer by cutting off the tip so you don't bore out your front seal when doing the reaming.

There are special taper pins that have a threaded extension on them. They are real good for being able to pull the pin out after a test fit. Once you have it reamed to the right depth and the fit is permanent, you can cut the threaded part off if it will interfere with the belts. You could also put some Loctite on the crank for the last assembly, to help keet the thing from fretting more.

If you drill and fit a taper pin (using it somewhat unconventionally like a Woodruff key) the damper should not ever move again. You'll need to drive the pin REALLY tight when you set it the last time.

What causes these things to happen is that there has to be some clearance in a Woodruff key to get the damper on the crank. The tapered pin fits with a decent interference fit, ie. negative clearance, and can't fret until the elastic limit of the steel is exceeded.

Jon

Greetinga Al, I repaired a mazda with a similar problem for a friend. The wheel which had the problem was the timing belt drive off the crankshaft. The crankshaft key slot was broken out on one side. The wheel still fit well but location would not hold because of the broken out key slot. The fix was to drill and tap two holes through the wheel. One over the key and the other 90 degrees opposite. Then, all parts were cleaned with brake cleaner. Loctite was then applied to the crankshaft and the wheel put in place. Since the keyslot was good in one direction the wheel was rotated in the good direction to locate it. Loctite was then applied to the set screws and everything was tightened. The crankshaft had the green #609 loctite and the setscrews the red #242. These are permanent adhesives. Anyway, the fix worked another 50,000 miles city driving until he sold the car and is still holding if the car is still running. Cheers, eric

I bet timing was a bit of a pain also.