Cincinnati Horozontal Mill problem

I volunteer at the local science
museum,rebuilding old machinery. Mostly steam and
early diesel tractors and road rollers. We have a
pretty good shop with a selection older, but good
solid machine tools. Among them is a Cincinnati
horizontal mill No.2 M1 ( serial F5409-6) made in
1946. Another of the volunteers(No , it really
Wasn't me) pulled the gearbox selector assembly
off the side of it as the machine appeared to be
seized. It appears that it somehow selected two
different gear ratios at once. It appears also,
that the gear selection is done hydraulically by
pistons which push selector arms in response to
the position of a multi-port valve .The question
is -how do you get the selector arms in the
correct position to re-assemble it. We will
probably have to replace the "o" rings on the
pistons as that is possibly why it selected two
gears at once.
Does anyone have any experience with this or a
similar machine? Am I looking in the correct areas
and are my suppositions reasonable?
We spent 2 hours today (and a fair amount of bad
language) trying to get those selectors in the
right positions to re-assemble it.
Tom Miller
Reply to
Tom Miller
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I'm no help with your problem, Tom, but I thought I might relate a similar incidence, one with serious consequences.
Years ago, when I was in training, the company had a #4 vertical Cincinnati mill that, likewise, shifted hydraulically. On several occasions, the head would go from one high to low range. but not when selected. Serious gear damage resulted until our main machine tool repair man found the problem, which I don't recall.
Good luck with your repair. Sure must be frustrating.
Harold
Reply to
Harold and Susan Vordos
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message news:43df05d4$1 snipped-for-privacy@newspeer2.tds.net...
Thanks for the encouragement Harold. I'm pretty sure that's why it jammed up, but I'm damned if I can figure out how to get it all back together. Maybe a nights sleep and it will all make sense.
Tom
Reply to
Tom Miller
Hmmmm... I seldom use my Cincy#2 in the horizontal mode, (got a BP 'M' head on it) but my sump is dry, and it still shifts fine... so this confuses me. I think I'll pull mine apart (after some _serious_ research) and see what's actually going on in there.
LLoyd
Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Tom,
Absent better info, it sounds like a job for a custom tool. It might be as simple as a spanner or two, or perhaps a plate with some screw jacks and access windows. Keep in mind that if large forces are keeping you from assembling it, any slips/failure of tools could be _very_ dangerous.
One nutty thought: if the forces are hydraulic, drain the system??? But you would have done or thought of that. Have you found a way to bleed it?
Good luck!
Bill
Reply to
Bill Schwab
Do you have any schematics, either hydraulic or mechanical, for this machine?
dennis in nca
Reply to
rigger
Where is your museum?
Reply to
wayne mak
Ive repaired quite a few of them so maybe I can be of some help. To line up the shifters you should pull off the outside and inside plate on the opposide side of the mill. This will gain you access to the inside of the machine so you can make sure all three of the shifter yokes are in the proper place. You have to set them up in the apporximate position and guide them in as you put the shifter housing in place. Make sure you get the little O rings in place at the bottom of the shifter housing.
The first thing to do is to check the hydraulic pressure on the shifter system. There is a port on same side as the hudraulic shifter unit that allows you to measure pressure. I leave a gauge right in the port so you can keep an eye on it on a continuing basis. I think the pressure settin should be about 300 lbs/ inch. The pressure adjustment is in the back over to the left of the main drive pulley. It should have a plate on it marking it as such.
I would suggest you should get a maintance manual of your particular machine. The information above is from my experience working on #4's and bigger, but they are all basicly the same.
When shifting gears, there is a lot going on inside of that machine. Make sure that the motor is turning the right way. There is an arrow on the main drive pulley that indicates the proper rotation. If you have proper rotation you will have hydraulic pressure. The gear pump is driven off the input power shaft before the clutch. One big problem is the pickup oil screen. After years of use it will get gummed up and will cause the oil pressure to drop.
You can check that the shifte forks are free. They should move easily with a little hand pressure. Watch out for the residual oil that will be pushed out of the input ports.
Watch out, cinci uses double set screws in many places. You have to measure the depths to make sure you got both of them out if you are removing a part.
John
Reply to
John
"Bill Schwab" wrote in message news:sUJDf.9483$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Thanks Bill The system is fairly easily drained as there are "nut& olive" connections on the lines. just slacke'm off and watch the oil go into the top of your boot. The biggest problem is getting everything lined up. The bottom selector lever tends to hang down but. a loop of fishing line under it and up to the inspection plug fixes that one. I'm going back out there Friday so I'll let you know how we went. Tom
Reply to
Tom Miller
Not a sausage.
Reply to
Tom Miller
Scienceworks is the science branch of Museums Victoria located in Melbourne Australia (Where it was 109 degrees Fahrenheit last week and is 65 degrees today)
Here's a link to our page
Tom "wayne mak" wrote in message news:V0RDf.1421$ snipped-for-privacy@fe02.lga...
Reply to
Tom Miller
Thanks John! That sounds like the sort of info we needed. . we'll give it a whirl on Friday and see what happens.. Much appreciated
Tom Miller
Reply to
Tom Miller
Oops! Missed the link
formatting link

"Tom Miller" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@quokka.wn.com.au...
Reply to
Tom Miller
Tom,
What would happen if the line broke? If it could be violent, make sure you won't get pinched/smashed. Is there room for a machinist's jack?
Please do. In fact, some pictures on a web site would be a great fix for us :)
Good luck!
Bill
Reply to
Bill Schwab
I thought I'd give you a final update on the Cincinnati Mill story. Further investigation has discovered a collapsed bearing and damaged gears. It was decided that, after a short ,but moving ceremony it would be delivered in the final care of a scrap merchant. R.I.P
Tom Miller
"Tom Miller" wrote in message news:43df03f1$ snipped-for-privacy@quokka.wn.com.au...
Reply to
Tom Miller
What you really want anyways, is a nice Kearny & Trecker/Milwaukee #2 miller. They are nearly bullet proof. If you find one however..remove the ventilation cover high on the right side (facing the table) and with the motor running look inside with a flashlight and make sure the lube pump is spritzing all the gears and such. The resevor is on the back side of the miller with a giant sized Flip Top to fill it with and a sight glass. About the only thing that seems to go wrong with them is the oil pump breaking (gear pump) and even then...you can put a powered oil pump on the machine somewhere and keep her going and going and going and going.....
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
Reply to
Gunner
snip----
Absolutely! I've run several. They stand alone where serious mills are concerned.
Harold
Reply to
Harold and Susan Vordos
OK I'll see what I can do.
Tom "Bill Schwab" wrote in message news:GE4Ef.4332$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Reply to
Tom Miller
Fist we've got to find the money, then the machine..
BTW The trick of replacing the oil pump with an external electrically driven one, is a good one. I've done it one Stahl refrigeration screw compressors with good results. Early Stahl units required that the oil pump bearings be changed every 2000 hours. (and baby, you'd better do it!) The rest of the thing was immune to everything but lightning strike. Replaced the internal pump with a blank plate,and an external Roper gear pump. Basically you blessed it once a year and that was it for maintenance!
Tom
Reply to
Tom Miller
here in the States..a K&T #2 can be had for $500-1000, usually with tooling. Ive bought and sold some for customers for $350
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
Reply to
Gunner

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