devices of unecessary complexity

I deviced to take apart an orignal Nikon F 35mm camera today, to see what's inside.
About 5000 parts is the answer, for a completely mechanical 35mm camera.
There were easily hundreds of screws, mostly of differnt types and clearly no concept of standardized parts.
I took the rest apart with a hammer and pliers. The magnesium? body was pretty brittle so the hammer worked great.
The thing was clearly overly complex for what it does, cleary not designed to be easily serviced, and clearly built to use as many different components and specialized tools as needed.
Does anybody know if these were designed to simply create lots of busy work for people? I think the basic design was from the late 1950s this this particular one being made in the early 1970s.
I've seem some German rifles that were made this way too, with as many parts as possible crammed in, none of which were even truly needed.
What's the deal with this? When did this rediculous fad finally go away?
Old VCRs used to be overly built the same way with too many mechanical parts.
Has anybody come across any other products, new or old that just appear to be some sort of socialist work program, and not about making a machine that works, at a reasonable price and that can be easily serviced?
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It had no pentaprism, so it's not actually worth anything. I still have one left that is complete.
while I'm typically no fan of destroying stuff like this, it is the only option when no service manuals are available, and you can't hire and old guy to let you watch a repair.
The question still stands. When do companies design stuff to be overly complex. What's the real end goal?
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Cydrome Leader wrote:

Service manuals for many Nikon cameras, including the F
http://arcticwolfs.net/downloads.php
--
Steve W.

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interesting. I looked for weeks and found nothing with the exploded diagram, like this site does actually have.
oh well. Apparently the one I ripped apart had titanium foil instead of cloth for the shutter. weird stuff.
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    Pentaprisms can be found -- or waist level finders -- or sports finders -- or ...

    To make the camera manufacturable. A lot of those parts are for tuning the speeds and motions to allow for variations in spring constants and the like. The cheaper cameras have fewer parts, and less accuracy as a result -- especially as they age.
    Of course, today a lot of that is tuned using microprocessor chips built into the camera. :-)

    Thank you! I've now downloaded manuals for all the Nikon SLR cameras I have. (Do you know of a similar site for the Zeiss Contax?)
    Thanks,         DoN.
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On 9/22/2014 11:27 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

I now have a Fujji camera that uses my old F lenses and new modern electronic lenses from Nikon. And mine runs on AA cells. Martin
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It's often not intentional, just a mindset. I used to design motorized disp lays for a toy company. The bases would show the kinetic aspects of the toy s. I would get a proposed design from their engineers, and come in the next day with revisions that would sometimes halve the cost with no loss of per formance or reliability. I had no real motive to save them money, I just li ke simplicity and abhor waste. Most of my suggestions would be shot down ju st because they were perceived as cutting corners.
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 03:02:39 -0700 (PDT), robobass

I wonder how much of that shooting down was covering for the "We couldn't charge as much for it, so it would be less profitable" line of thought.
Absolutely _all_ of us, who either build or repair things, thank those who simplify their products and/or software.
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05:44:13 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Feh. If I can simplify the final production, I don't have to tell the customer who much it actually cost to make.

    OTOH, there is the engineering mantra of
    "It meets the specs,      it is under cost,      now take this thing      and just get lost!"
-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:48:01 -0700, pyotr filipivich

Is that the mantra for the engineers who need to justify their ghastly salaries do the idiots upstairs? <sigh>
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19:08:42 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    No, it is part of the "Engineer Rap" from a dozen years ago. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Monday, September 22, 2014 2:44:13 PM UTC+2, Larry Jaques wrote:

isplays for a toy company. The bases would show the kinetic aspects of the toys. I would get a proposed design from their engineers, and come in the n ext day with revisions that would sometimes halve the cost with no loss of performance or reliability. I had no real motive to save them money, I just like simplicity and abhor waste. Most of my suggestions would be shot down just because they were perceived as cutting corners.

I don't think this was the case. It seemed that the company was paying for the displays. The boss just liked to see lots of fasteners, necessary or no t.
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It's often not intentional, just a mindset. I used to design motorized displays for a toy company. The bases would show the kinetic aspects of the toys. I would get a proposed design from their engineers, and come in the next day with revisions that would sometimes halve the cost with no loss of performance or reliability. I had no real motive to save them money, I just like simplicity and abhor waste. Most of my suggestions would be shot down just because they were perceived as cutting corners.
=================I was asked to simplify the circuit for a custom IC, and did it so well the engineer was embarrassed and upset he hadn't thought of my solution, which he couldn't understand at first so I had to build it for proof. I reduced the complexity of two of their other persistent problems by half by substituting simple but subtle mechanics for complex electronics and probably earned more resentment than gratitude for it, though they did move me from lab tech to design engineer.
The electronic and mechanical engineers at that and several other places I've worked knew little of each others' discipline and didn't cooperate very well when it meant subordinating themselves to each other instead of being in charge. I'm fairly competent at both so often they dumped the problem on me, and I had to be very diplomatic to stay on everyones' good side, or at least not be the person they hated most. -jsw
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-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Not just the EE & ME. I learned machining. When I was tasked with making some fenders for a friends walker - of course the first thing I though of was "get a block of aluminum, and mill it ...".
    Sigh, the whole "if all you know is the hammer, everything is a nail."

-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:52:19

At my first job after the Army I told them I'd like to work my way up to engineer, so they ran me through all the departments to learn the intricacies of custom machine design and fabrication. I'd learned mechanical drawing in jr high and Statics and the properties of metals in college, which were big helps. I didn't actually operate a Bridgeport, TIG welder or press brake but I learned what they can and can't do. I did drill and tap a lot of holes and learn to bend sheet metal accurately on a manual brake. -jsw
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:35:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

That was really cool of that company, Jim. I doubt it would happen at 99% of places nowadays.

Statics or statistics? I had all the tech classes in early school, too. Metal and wood shops, basic aviation, HS organic chemistry, mech dwg.

Reality sets in once you do get onto a machine. Theory and paperwork only get you so far. Then it takes a bit of time converting those old synapses from concept into manual dexterity. It can be shocking, but it's fun, most of the time, right? All knowledge is good.

Great. I finally got back on my little HF (Harbor Freight, not high freq) TIG yesterday and once again repaired the steel mount bracket for Dad's old Craftsman circular saw. I hadn't penetrated well enough the first time and it only lasted two months of very light work. This time, I turned the amperage down and spent some time pooling the area so I got a good, deep puddle. What I didn't burn through the first time looks, um, fairly good now. (no picture requests, please ;) Anyway, the more metalworking, plasma cutting, and TIG welding I do, the more I like it.
I wonder what kind of solar/battery setup I'll need to continue to use that thing once the grid goes down... Time to start looking at 240v inverters, I guess.
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19:50:54 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    The is rec.crafts.metalworking - you should be planning on the steam powered generator setup! From Scratch! Refine your own scratch, too!
     -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 21:27:52 -0700, pyotr filipivich

Bbbut, I was talking about Tiggin', wholely on topic on a metalworking group. Wouldja like to hear more about how I stuck the electrode and welded with it still contaminated? I purely do wish it had a HF start mode, but it's a scratcher. The copper-plated filler rod helps immensely, though.
Besides being tres cool, for something so wildly hot, steam is totallyunsustainableandwilldrownpolarbearsinmeltedicejustaskAlgoreyup.
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07:19:34 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Ummm, no. Sorry, but I don't know enough about TIG welding to be able to laugh at the right places. B-)

    Use a solar power to heat the steam. Even better - cause there is no coal involved.
    Or you could make your own nuclear power plant. No carbon emissions at all! -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statics
I haven't used it enough to remember how to calculate moments of inertia so I use the AISI Manual of Steel Construction and these for beam and column loading. http://books.google.com/books/about/Simplified_design_of_structural_steel.html?id=yvs9AAAAYAAJ (Amazon.com product link shortened)
I studied other fields to learn enough to recognize impending problems and credibly convince the project engineer that he needed to consult an expert to solve them. I learned machining so I wouldn't make dumb, expensive design errors.
Companies that design with moving parts, like Segway, have mechanical engineers, but purely electronic companies may be lost when the occasional mechanical design issue arises. -jsw
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