Do I have enough Power in Garage for NEW shop Tools ?



The branch circuit stuff around the shop you can do yourself. But when you get inside the Main Panel or have loading concerns, get someone who has seen it before.

They do make All-In-One panels that have dual Main Breakers - but it's a fairly new invention. They have a 200A Main Breaker for the 30 or 40-position distribution panel in that can, and a second 100A or 200A Main Breaker for a remote sub-panel feed. But when you do that, the metering section busses and the service drop conductors have to be sized for a 300A or 400A load.
I've worked on an old commercial building where they had a 100A rated enclosed meter socket (separate can just for the socket) and service wires. First they upgraded the main breaker panel to a 200A Main, then they scabbed on a second 60A enclosed breaker for a remote panel - and they were sucking 150A to 175A continuous through that 100A socket and risers. Got a little warm...
The only thing that saved them was the service risers were Type RHW Rubber, so while the insulation got a bit brittle, it didn't melt.

Would help a whole lot - but Do Not Post Binaries Here, you will make the gods of Usenet angry.
Most ISP accounts include some webspace, put the pictures there and give us a link here pointing at them. Or there's the Dropbox where you can put photos and projects. http://www.metalworking.com /
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On Mar 1, 11:48 pm, Bruce L. Bergman

Great info Thanks,...
Here are some Photos that may help explain what I'm talking about. Perhaps these might help with my description.
Main Panel
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8005.jpg
Inside diagram complete
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8007.jpg
Inside diagram partial
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8008.jpg
300 volt cable I was trying to describe
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8010.jpg
Breaker in the Garage...
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8011.jpg
Thanks,
/Jman...
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Based on the very first picture, you will require an upgraded service, from the weatherhead onward. That appears to be the old treated paper jacketing on the wires, not a good thing. The wiring in that house is very old. The service conductors will most likely be 1/0 (maybe that big) feeding your panel, and in no way will carry 200A. I would suggest you upgrade to a 200A service, and sub out the current 100A main panel from it. This would prevent having to rewire everything. I would suggest you plan on upgrading the house wiring in the future to romex, as the type of wiring jacket you have gets brittle with time.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
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That's set up as a dual-Main panel, the "flat rate" breaker was for the electric water heater or other loads that they were just going to charge by the month for. Looks like the main buss is still only rated at 100A.
Uses standard GE "Industrial Interchange" sized breakers, if the guts of that panel are in good shape you could leave it there as-is, remove the sub-feed to the garage, and you'd be fine.
If that "I assume this must be the main line" cable heads up to a boxed meter socket in the outside wall, and then up a riser to the roof for the service drop, you can install a new 200A Service on the outside with a 200A riser to the roof. One 100A breaker for the House, one for the Garage, and extra space for other things.

Looks like normal Romex. Hopefully, grounded. Leave it alone, it's fine if it's grounded. The only thing you have to do is move the grounds if you place a new Main Panel outside - you can only land Grounds on the Neutral buss in the Main Panel enclosure, if this is turned into a sub-panel you need to spend $5 on a separate ground buss, and make sure to have a separate ground lead up to the new Main.

Get Rid Of That Garage Panel. Bad Juju.
Federal Pioneer is the Canadian name they put on Federal Pacific breaker panels, and those breakers have a very nasty habit of mechanically failing with no outward signs - and then they get mechanically 'jammed' and won't trip no matter how much juice you try feeding through them. Ever.
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm is the tip of the iceberg.
Ask Underwriters Labs about the Type Approval certificate on those breakers, and watch the flop sweat start - In the old days Mfgrs were allowed to conduct their own testing, and we suspect FPE faked it.
Reliance Electric (IIRC) bought FPE, and then found out they also bought a BIG pile of undisclosed liability and tried to unwind the sale... And then Exxon bought Reliance and they got sandbagged too... There's a lot of messy stuff buried under the gravestone of that company that nobody wants to talk about.
--<< Bruce >>--
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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

>
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8005.jpg
>
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8007.jpg
>
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8008.jpg
>
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8010.jpg
>
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u206/floppychicken/House%20Power%20Photos/IMG_8011.jpg
If you ever go house hunting and see FPE, probably the rest of the material in the house is not very good either.
John
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wrote:

Not at all. Back then, it was represented as UL Listed, safety checked, and perfectly fine - we had no reason to think otherwise.
Then again, so was ungrounded Knob & Tube wiring across the attic joists with rubber insulation in it's day - but again, we've learned that while it was a good idea at the time it has been superceded by modern technology.
When you upgrade the service you just change out the panel. $20 to $40 for a new panel, and $3 to $10 each for breakers.
The only thing I'd worry about is the silver fabric style NM Cable on the right side of the Main Panel in the picture - if it isn't grounded. And that style came all three ways, Ungrounded, Reduced Ground (16-gauge ground wire, just enough to trip the breaker, which is okay) and full-size ground.
It's safe to leave ungrounded wire in service, but you have to make sure that someone didn't install 3-prong receptacles that are lying and aren't grounded. No ground, and you have to use the old-style 2-prong receptacles, or a GFCI that's marked "No Equipment Ground".
And don't hook up the computer or any sensitive electronics to a circuit without a ground. Any static or lightning, and you could have some smoking computer gear. Pull a new grounded circuit.
--<< Bruce >>--
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