Don Foreman still about?

I haven't had the pleasure of reading one of Don's posts for quite a while. I hope all is well with Don. Anyone?

Reply to
Dennis
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I'm still alive but I very seldom read RCM any more. I think that the most prolific posters do little or no metalworking. It's mostly political slogan-slinging and Gunner-bashing.

I'm busy grieving. for my treasured. soulmate Mary that died unexpectedly last March. It's hard work. Many fellow travelers who have lost beloved spouses say that the second year is worse than the first. That doesn't seem possible, but I guess I'll soon see.

I have almost no motivation to do anything useful or even necessary. I'm hoping that longer days may revitalize me, though this has been a "non-winter" in Minnesota.

I have wonderful support from family (2 sons) in town. Daughter Karen came from Denver to visit for my birthday. As usual, she had a project in mind: she made a fire ring with cutouts using my plasma cutter. Neat!

I had three lady friends that I enjoyed a lot, no romance but good friendships. One of them recently got pissed at me for reasons I still don't understand and is "taking a break" which I think might be permanent. I miss her, am grieving a little for that loss. There's still another, A, that is steady as rock, I continue to be amazed with her. She is a widow, lost her hub three weeks before I lost my Mary. She's grieving hard also but she is a remarkably strong woman. That'll never be a romance either but it is a hell of a good friendship, perhaps the best thing I have going in my life -- and it's obviously good for her too.

And, she is a beautiful woman, a head-turner.

I've been taking square dancing lessons. Matter of fact, yesterday was the last lesson, "graduation" will be next Monday night. I don't feel ready for "graduation" but my "angel" partners (experienced dancers) tell me I'm doing great. There are 68 calls in mainstream square dancing and there's no time to think when the calls are made. Some of the calls require fairly complex sequences of maneuvers or steps. One (that I've mastered) is 32 steps in cadence with the music.

It's a strugggle to get out of bed most days, and some days I don't bother. Today was one of them. That isn't unusual. My friend A has a day job but she called in sick yesterday, which was the day after the anniversary of her late hub's death. She weathered the anniversary day OK with family but then melted down. She says I'm the only person she can really talk to about her profound grief. My family is more understanding than hers, but it's certainly true that nobody who isn't a fellow traveler (one who has lost a beloved spouse) can even begin to comprehend.

There is no "getting over" this kind of grief. It isn't like losing parents or even a child, because it is a permanent and irrevocable life-change at a time in life where change is difficult. (I'm 70) My friend A lost a previous hub and, while the 10 years she had with her latest hub were by far the best 10 years of her life, she still talks about the previous guy now and then. A is a decade younger than I but I strongly doubt that she'll ever remarry. I also strongly doubt that she'll ever discard me as a valued and special friend.

My friend Karl the apple farmer has been a continuing surprise, amazingly supportive. That has meant a lot to me. A week of fishing in the Florida keys in January with Karl and Julie was wonderful.

I can't yet enjoy watch>I haven't had the pleasure of reading one of Don's posts for quite a while.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Great to hear you are still around the traps Don. I wondered how you were going (I'm sure a good many other guys here wondered what you were up to as well).

Motivation can be an elusive thing, I spend most of my time looking for it as well - it can be especially hard if in the past you have had high levels of motivation. Some of us are content to just let the days slide by but it seems much more satisfying if you can do something interesting & productive with your time.

It's great you've got a few good friends, they can be hard to find. From what you write here I'm sure you are a good friend in return.

You got grandkids Don? Maybe you could get them involved in some projects, even if it is achieved remotely.

Over here in Australia we have an organisation called "Mens Sheds". They set up small workshops in the suburbs where like minded guys of all ages can get together to talk crap, make stuff and generally socialise. I don't know if they have them in your part of the world but it seems you might be a good fit for them if you did.

Get some filters set up on you news group reader - there's still some interesting stuff here & I'm sure others have missed your input as well.

Where are the pictures of the fire grate? If you've got some stick them in the drop box for us to look at.

Best regards!

Reply to
Dennis

In olden days, people would grieve for a year and then get on with their lives. I wholeheartedly recommend the same to you, my friend.

So find somewhere to volunteer and put some time in doing something helping others. Or start a mentor/apprentice program so you can do the exact things -you- want to do, Don. Pass on your skills.

Smart woman. She probably got it from her parents.

Don't be so damned sure, sir. She's probably pissed at you because you haven't made a pass at her. (hint dropped)

Good, have fun! Any other engineers, or even (gasp!) blue collar workers, in the group you can relate to in a purely electrical or mechanical or machining way?

YES THERE IS, Don. Do it for Mary if not for yourself. She wouldn't want you wasting away, pining over her for the rest of your life.

So work on her.

xox

We love you, Don.

-- ...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work. -- John Ruskin

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Hey Gunner piss off & quit cross posting! :)

Reply to
Dennis

...

I just got the second 1919 assembled today. Its dry firing 19 out of

  1. I'm going for 20/20. Then it needs a range test but testing the first one ate all my ammo. Are you up for a reloading run?

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

No, they didn't. That's what others expected. Widows wore black for a year and then were presumed to be "over it".

I got that same advice from my Dr, who wants to treat me for depression. I am not depressed, I am grieving and there's a significant difference though many symptoms are similar. People in depression can't laugh, have fun or experience joy. I definitely can and do.

One of my new friends, A, is a LOT of fun to be with. She was widowed three weeks before I was so she just had her first anniversary -- and that was difficult for her. But we laugh together way more than we cry together.

I'm quite sure that isn't the source of her pique. But she's comin' around now: hopes to see me tomorrow at group. She wouldn't be pissed if she didn't care about me, but if this is "aggrivated" as she describes it, I'd sure hate to see her really pissed off.

Yes! One guy was a machinist. It's a wonderful group.

NO THERE ISN'T. That's well documented in the literature. But that isn't the same as wasting away pining for the lost one forever. We need to keep going, find a "new normal". Life will never be the same as it was, so we must devise, design and discover how life will be henceforth after the loss of a soulmate and partner.

In terms of my progress, Mary would say "way to go, Foreman, be careful!" She would have liked both A and H. Matter of fact, she did meet A once and liked her immediately.

We never "get over" it; we must learn how to live with it -- and we must face the pain and deal with it because grief can be delayed but it cannot be denied. It has to be processed sooner or later.

Don't need to. It's a wonderful friendship as is. I continue to be surprised at how it's working so well.

Thank you, Larry. Hug me at your peril!

That actually happened in a grief support group: Ken hugs all of the ladies. At one point the facilitator asked if there was anyone present that Ken hadn't hugged. I raised my hand. He came over, yanked me out of my seat and gave me a bear hug. I hugged him back in kind. I think he's mending nicely. When I see him now a hearty handshake is exchanged but he says (with a grin) "no hugs". Ken is a fixture in that group. I think it'd be about impossible to dislike him.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Don, there is no hurry to get over anything, you are just fine and there is nothing wrong with you. In fact, you might be grieving as you are fooling around with attractive ladies. One does not preclude another. This is all OK, as long as your life is in order and you keep a good memory of your wife.

I hope to see more of you and your posts here.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus1127

Yoo betcha!

Reply to
Don Foreman

Guy Hug (tm), Don.

Gun hand to gun hand - Knife hand to the back.

:)

Reply to
Richard

We never "get over" it; we must learn how to live with it -- and we must face the pain and deal with it because grief can be delayed but it cannot be denied. It has to be processed sooner or later. ____________________________________________

25 years ago my fiancé was killed by a drunk driver. We had nowhere near your relationship nurtured over so many years and only a fraction of the meld but I still grieve...I'm just used to it now and I fondly remember the fun and the laughs. Then I became a lesbian.

Go shooting!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

But most were ready to shuck the black far earlier, whether or not they wanted to replace their man. I'm sorry that you feel the need to grieve for so long, Don.

This is good.

Again, good!

OK, maybe there isn't. But I consider a 90% diminution of the effects of grief to be "over it". Nobody wants to be, but it happens, and that's good. You learn to live with it and memories fade, softening it. You retain your good memories and honor the missing spouse but life revolves once again. (Always single, I've only seen this from afar and had it related to me via dozens of friends who have experienced it.)

Excellent.

Semantics? (end game same/same)

OK, denial it is.

We do that in AA, too. We're all family.

-- ...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work. -- John Ruskin

Reply to
Larry Jaques

I don't know you, and I wouldn't presume to tele-diagnose. I will just say that depression isn't a mood, it's a medical condition. If you're grieving or mourning, which is a mental state, it quite possibly is causing the medical condition of depression. You should listen to your doctor, then just be conservative in taking any medication he may recommend.

Reply to
Delvin Benet

I'm listening to a certified professional grief counsellor who explained the difference between grief and clinical depression.

I am grieving normally, doing OK or better.

A very good friend suggested that I should hoist myself up by the stacking swivel; his widowed friend was doing just fine. I tore him a new asshole for that remark, he mentioned that to his friend who informed him that she'd been presenting a brave face but she cried herself to sleep every night for more than a year.

Grief is not pretty; it repels many. I am extremely fortunate to have family and a few friends that are with me as I grieve, and some new friends and fellow travelers that completely understand because they're on similar journeys.

Reply to
Don Foreman

I really miss your lucid project descriptions, Don. A brief note here if something new is posted would be most appreciated.

--sp

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Glad to hear from you Don. Quite awhile ago you had given me the dimensions for the tangential tool holder you made for your lathe. I finally got around to making one for mine. In the end I wound up using 12º for my angles. I wasn't sure how you chose 13.5º for yours or whether you were jerking my chain when I saw the 0.5. The tangential tool gives an improved finish compared to my other hand sharpened HSS lathe tools, but often the finish is still a bit rough, as though there was some microscopic steel tearout. I haven't played with the angles on the tool bit itself. It's been awhile since I ground it, but I think I used 30º for both angles based on something I'd read. After being an unemployed EE for a year, my son got a position as the director of the EE lab at the local university. It's really a tech's job, but he has a lot of time to pursue interesting aspects of trouble shooting that aren't taught in college courses. Some of us still talk shop here.

RWL

Reply to
GeoLane at PTD dot NET

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:11:49 -0800, Larry Jaques

No disrespect intended, but having never experienced it you can't begin to comprehend it. That's well documented in the literature.

We all grieve as we do, there's no formula or schedule. A friend and fellow traveler who has been widowed three times says those experiences were all very different. She is a remarkably strong woman, widowed three weeks before I was. She's bumpin' along but she still has some days that are almost paralyzingly difficult. But she's getting on with life successfully.

She got very quiet for a little while during my recent birthday party. I know how that works, so does she when I get quiet. We never know when those episodes will occur. I didn't say anything, just held her hand under the table. She got past it in a few minutes. She never said what the trigger was, and I don't need to know. Trivial things can be major triggers.

Not long ago we had a gunsmoke social and luncheon, a range visit with friends that I've been doing this with for some time. Mary was part of our group.

After that shoot, before going to the Mex restaurant, I was sitting in the parking lot of Bill's Gunshop and Range with my head on the steering wheel bawling my head off. I thought everyone else had left and I'd catch up with them.

I heard a tap on my window. Oh, shit! It was Todd. "Wanna ride with me?" "No, I'll be OK." "Want me to ride with you?" "No, I'll be OK." "OK bud, seeya there." He's that kind of friend.

What was the trigger? Seeing how he related to his wife Laura while shooting. Laura and Mary were tight as ticks immediately, I'd never seen Mary warm up to another person so quickly. The relationship Todd 'n Laura have is quite exceptional. Iam amazingly lucky to have them as friends. They've not pulled away from me during my grief. That's unusual for couples. I don't see them a lot, but they've embraced me as family.

After one gunsmoke social and luncheon, when Mary was in the rehab place, Laura stopped by to visit. She went walking past the front desk with a big target shot full of bullet holes that she wanted to show Mary. The target was a sheet with five bullseyes, there were four shooters. The fifth bullseye was labelled "Mary", signifying that we'd missed her good company that day. Then she did Mary's hair as they chatted about whatever women chat about. That day was huge for Mary. I'll never forget that kindness.

My very experienced professional counseller seems to think that I'm progressing well.

Said counsellor has also noted that the relationship I had, based on anecdotal evidence, was quite exceptional -- and she's heard hundreds of stories. Everyone in support groups says they lost a soulmate so I thought maybe mine was no different. My counseller says wrong, it defiinitely was. I think my friends A and H also had similarly exceptional relationships. I don't know how I sensed that capacity but I immediately did.

It ain't denial, it's respect. She's nowhere near ready for a romantic involvement and I probably am not either. I sure don't want to screw up a very valuable friendship by trying to take it where it can't presently go. We've explored that a little. Uh uh, not gonna happen anytime soon. She's still very married. She's that kind of woman. OK, roger that! We talk freely about her Buck and my Mary. We enjoy each other's company a lot and we laugh far more than we cry. She is surprisingly game. Loyal to Buck and prudishly proper as she is we've had a couple of cabin weekends at the lake that were hugely enjoyable. Separate bedrooms. There'll be more of those this coming season. We never did go swimming. I think if she came out in a swimsuit I'd explode. I can think of worse ways to go.

She still has a day job so it's not easy to find time to spend together. Other friend H is retired -- but I think she's screwed me off. I'm grieving a little for the loss of that friendship, which apparently wasn't as important to her as I imagined. I was a good friend to her, she said so several times. Shit happens.

Life lurches on.

Reply to
Don Foreman

I suppose not. Sorry.

It's wonderful to have friends like that.

Nor should you.

Excellent.

OK, my friendly goad is cheerfully retracted.

Condolences.

OK. Carry on, sir!

-- It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment. -- Freeman Dyson

Reply to
Larry Jaques

I get that all this written moaning might somehow be cathartic but now you're making a career out of it. Past a certain point dwelling on grief is stupid. Responders here or anywhere who buy into it and feed it aren't doing you any favors. Man up already for Christ's sake Don.

Reply to
st

plink ........................

Reply to
Steve B

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