Today I watched auctions and bid on auctions for mill accessories.
a) I bid $1250, the winner bid $1275 b) I bid $10, the winner bid $10.50 c) I bid $20, the winner bid $52 d) I bid $100, the winner bid $107 e) I bid $255, the winner bid $260 f) I bid $30, the winner bid $31 g) I bid $10, the winner bid $36 h) I bid $10, the winner bid $11 i) I bid $66, the looser bid $47.98, causing me to pay $48.99
In all 9 auctions, I was the first to bid, or bid several multiples of the existing high bid.
Most watched auctions end without any bids.
So why in all cases does another bidder appear if I bid?
Could it be the seller has another identity to shill up the price?
No -- the winner *actually* probably bid something like $1500.00, and the minimum bid increment was $25.00, so eBay's proxy bidding system bid the minimum increment over your bid. If your bid had been higher, either his would have been $25.00 over what you bid, or your bid would have been higher than his maximum bid and you would have won it.
Same as above, except the minimum bid increment is $0.50. (It is scaled according to how high the auction currently is -- the higher, the more the minimum bid increment, to avoid a bunch of bids incrementing by a ridiculous $0.01 at the $5000.00 level. :-)
O.K. Here, there was another bidder involved who probably bid $50.00. (Do you ever bother looking at the bid summarys after the auction closes? This can tell you a lot about what happened.
As above for the first two, with the possibility that there was another bidder at $102 after you, and the minimum increment was $5.00.
As above.
As above.
A third bidder in this one too.
Minimum increment again.
So -- you *do* know about the minimum increment. You won something. And if you weren't willing to pay $48.99, why did you bid $86.00?
And how long before the close did you bid? It is better to bid what you are willing to pay at the last minute. That's the way eBay works.
You weren't interested enough to bid on those auctions for whatever reason -- why do you expect someone else to bid on them.
If you bid *too* early, it is a flag showing someone else that you think that it is worth something, and they then take a closer look at it. This is one reason why it is better to bid at the last minute. (And, BTW, many vendors *hate* that, because they aren't willing to commit themselves to setting a minimum bid to assure that they get what they need from it -- that costs them money.)
Yes, it could -- but then what does he gain for the all but one of these where the supposed shill account "won" the auction. He needs to sell it to *you* or someone not a shill account to make money.
I think that you may be getting a bit paranoid about this.
When I (really my wife is doing the bidding since she has the account, I am simply doing the selecting and providing the money) am interested in something, I decide what it is worth to me -- usually with a bit of a fudge factor to make sure that I am above people bidding an even amount), and try to get that bid in as close to the last minute as practical with the current net response time. If someone else wants it also, and puts in a bid of what *they* are willing to pay for it, then it is a toss-up as to which of us will get it. Whoever wants it more (as measured by our bids) will get it -- unless someone starts the bidding early and gets in a bidding war with someone else who also starts early, and often enough winds up paying more for it than *new* price. In a bidding war, the only winner is the vendor. The low bidder is a loser in that he did not get what he wanted, and the high bidder is a loser in that he paid more than was reasonable for it.
I might be misunderstanding here, but have you read all the eBay bidding instructions?
If someone bids an amount that is a great deal larger than the current bid, it will only raise the current bid enough to beat the highest standing bid, and hold the difference in reserve. This allows you to post the greatest amount you are willing to pay for an item, but still not pay more the just a small margin more than the SECOND highest bidder.
Take fifteen minutes or so to review the bidding tutorial. Although it seems strange to a beginner, it's very handy after you get the hang of it.
There's a whole bunch of reasons - most likely the "another bidder appears" is a bid placed through a monitoring proxy bidding service. The original one was eSnipe, there have to be others by now.
If nobody bids on the item, the eSnipe program charges in in the last thitry seconds and bids the minimum to get past the reserve, or a ridiculously low price if there's no reserve. And if there's another bidder or sniper out there, the programs can fight it out till time is up or limits are reached.
Item I: When you put in your max bid of $66, you probably placed an immediate one of $20 or $30. They tried sniping till they hit the other buyer's limit of $48, and when you notched over their limit by going to $48.99 the program hit it's stop point of $48 and let you have it.
And some sellers gladly shill the hell out of their own auctions, even though it's against the rules. Because they have maybe $10 invested in an item worth $100 "Street Price" - but the MSRP List Price is $200 and some people don't question it.
It's worth the risk to shill up the price if they can get some sucker that doesn't know what the item is worth to pay $200 or more for it...
Worst case the shill goes past your limit, and the seller has to "Buy it from themselves" to complete the illusion and eat the fees. But they can give themselves positive feedback, so it isn't all bad.
And now you know why I stay far, far away. Den of thieves. If their worst fault was only "Honest Al Babin" I'd deal there, at least he was easy to spot.
I use a sniping tool called jbidwatcher. I decide what the item is worth to me, set a snipe to go off a few seconds before the auction expiration, and try not to think about it until after the expiration.
I recently got a cylindrical slide rule -- I was second bidder for something like half a dozen of them before I finally won. And I got one in basically "new" condition for quite a bit less than one of the people who'd beat me got a terribly beat up one a couple of weeks earlier. That's the way the game works....
First lesson to learn on ebay is that no matter what it is, there will be another one along soon. Figure out what you will pay, and you will probably eventually get one. Also, learn how to use the advanced search and completed items to get an idea of what that item commonly sells for. After that, it is a waiting game. And watch for misspelled items or underdescribed items. I filled out my clamp collection with "vice grips". Got a lot of them dirt cheap.
I think that doesn't work. I sell some old car parts nearly every week. The auctions usually double in the last hours, then double again in the last 2 minutes. As the seller, I am watching who bids and when. Often, the high bidder placed his bid 2-5 days ago and the sniper only made more money for me and got nothing. When I bid, I figure out how much the item is worth to me, and then go just a little more, then don't worry about it until the auction ends. I never have to wonder if another $ would have done it.
I agree, I bid early, sometimes days before it ends. I bid what I want to pay and if someone outbids then then OK. most times I get an identical item for less money in the end.
Why would you bid even a little more than the item is worth to you? That makes no sense. Bidding early also makes no sense, unless there is a possibility of a second chance offer or you are worried the seller may pull the item and it is something that is extremely important to you.
Well if it is worth 100 and just getting the thing bought rather than wasting time looking for it makes you go 110 then maybe that makes sense.
As far as pulling the item, a bid, unless something has changed doesn't stop a seller from pulling it. I've bid on things where the seller sold it privately and yanked it. That p*ss*s me off. If I'm committing to by, the seller should be committing to sell.
No fing way am I doing a second chance. Smells like shill. Relist it, I'll take my chances.
Wes
-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
The answers is yes, no, definitely, and maybe. I used a snipe program in my later ebay experience. One day, an Oilfield Trash belt buckle came on, a nice one with the box and paperwork and all. I wanted it, and would have paid $50 for it. I put in a snipe for $50. I got it for $4. No one else wanted it bad or bid on it.
You're right about bidding early, or bidding more than you wish to pay. I found sniping the best way to go when I couldn't be at a computer when it came off, and got several items at good prices or very cheap. Some were antique post cards from the old west circa 1900. Stamps and handwritten messages and all. But I'd put the max I'd pay on bidnapper, and more times I got it than not. And the ones I lost went for way more than they were worth. Someone somewhere just wanted them badly. I have a good collection of some really good stuff, and I bought every one of them cheap.
in that case it is worth 110 to you, or you are caught up in a frenzied quest to acquire that particular item...
Unfortunately, the committment on Ebay is only one way, which is another good reason to snipe. Second chance offers make sense when the seller has more than one item available.
Great! I tried another sniping tool some years ago, and it failed me when eBay played games with the format close to the last minute. Not long after that, the author gave up trying to keep track of eBay's changes. I suspect that it might be easier to make it more adaptable in java, which jbidwatcher is written in -- which also means that it happily runs in my Solaris as well as the more "popular" OS's.
Indeed so. I once got a nice set of Tri-Mikes (forget whether it was a three-mike or a four-mike set) which was one of two almost identical sets up for auction at the same time. One was wonderfully photographed, wonderfully described, and was going to close later. The other has poorer photos (though good enough to tell me that the set had a more complete set of wrenches), a much less elaborate description (they assumed that you knew what it was, or you would not be bidding on it), and closed sooner.
At the time of the close of the first auction, it was about $200.00 less than the fancy description one, and we got it. The other kept going up over the next two hours, and eventually closed for something like $350.00 more -- for a slightly less complete set.
So -- you neve know -- but it helps to know what you are bidding on, and not to depend too strongly on the descriptions and photos. (The one which went really high has the feel (in memory) of a Reliable Tools auction. :-)
I thought that he had been around for a while, but perhaps he has been posting on metalworking (or perhaps politics, but not too much or I would have him killfiled), and has just recently gotten into trying to get things seriously via eBay. :-)
Well, if he does, then he's paying eBay a lot of fees to list and sell stuff back to HIMSELF. That isn't much of a game, is it? Sniping is a big game, and quite annoying, there must be some guys who get a real hoot out of doing it. But, I believe that there are real bidders doing most of this sniping. There are programs you can buy that will sit on your computer and do the sniping automatically for you, always with just a couple seconds to go. On a few items that I really wanted, I've actually done it myself (manually) and sometimes it works. Sometimes my fingers or the net are too slow, and I get the last bid in too late.
No, in that case the complete "package" -- the item, and not wasting time -- is worth 110. I've bought many items with Buy It Now that I might well have gotten for less on the auction, since the item was, when it came right down to it, was worth that much to me and I didn't want to screw around.
In a way I'm agreeing with you -- "it makes sense". Where I'm disagreeing is that obviously the item was worth that much, 'cause you were willing to pay it.
Not something I've actually run into on anything I've bought -- but I agree completely.
In fairness, jbidwatcher went through a period when it was useless for exactly that reason. I'm not clear on whether somebody else is maintaining it now, or if the author caught up and ebay hasn't played silly games for a while, but it's worked for me.
I sort of wonder why ebay hasn't published an API. It isn't like sniping is uncommon, or like they're playing games frequently enough to be seriously trying to defeat the snipes.
I say this without researching if they've actually published an API since I last checked...
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