What I have done is just to drill a hole through the ramp top and the tail gate. Need a bit of touvh up paint for this. Then put a carriage bolt through them both.
You can get those cheap at costco. I have had mine for over twenty years and it has saved my ass again and again. You can grab on top and put somebody on the bottom and lower some pretty substantial weights.
I have also built ramps for these things. I always put down a small ridge a couple of inches wider than the tires. That way the dolly won't wander off the ramp. Some 1 X 2 nailed or srewed to the ramp is adequate.
First of all Steve I was a rigger from '63 to about '76 so if there have been newer developments I may not be aware of them. I moved on to other aspects of the machinery industry at that time.
That being said I'm sure you know next to nothing about lifting and moving machinery. I'd be willing also to guess you have no practical experience in any of the construction trades either. How about this: Go into your garage and try it before you offer any more criticism. Perhaps you can then let us know your experiences, as I have done and I weigh somewhat more than 150#.
Again, your lack of experience is glaring.
What you suggest is not simple.
Let me explain something to you Steve and to anyone else who may be interested. While spending 13 years moving machinery non-stop I managed to learn a few things. Because I enjoy lurking on this group and learning, learning, learning about metalworking I'm happy to contribute what I can.
The ideas I offer this group are based on experience, not conjecture. I also take into account the differences in members ages and physical size. When you supervise crews of riggers this is what you must do to insure safety. I deliberately do not suggest moves which are inherently dangerous as you'd see if you'd read earlier posts by me on these subjects.
If others have ideas that sound workable and safe you'll never find me denigrating them because I realize others may or may not have the self confidence to try other, less complex methods. And besides some times it's enjoyable to come up with elegant solutions.
In order to contribute to this thread how about trying the experiment I've done. My test was in the center of a 2x4, on edge, between the overhead door and the center of the garage. The 2x4 was supported near the door and had bracing attached to the roof trusses 12 feet away, I was in the center of this 12' span. This a garage built in the mid '70s and in good condition. When I suspended myself at this point (and I chose the 2x4 with the most visible "checking") one tiny creak was the only negative result and when I hauled myself up and down and swung on the rope no further signs of stress were evident.
The reason for not resting another 2x4 (or similar) across 2 or more rafters is because it will tend to roll like a wheel when you try to lower the weight thus loosing the mechanical advantage you have from friction. Besides on a weight this low you don't need to complicate the issue. The other reason I didn't suggest this is because I don't like the idea of driving nails through the cross piece into the rafters degrading (I believe) the integrity of the rafters. If I'm way off on this it would be nice if someone lets me know.
If you do perform this experiment please let us know the results.
I have worked in the trades. I was a commercial diver. I was a certified crane operator on drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. I worked assembling and disassembling derricks. I was a steel erection contractor in the State of Nevada for nine years.
All required rigging knowledge.
I was certified by Offshore Petroleum Institute, the regulatory agency at that time. I have attended many inhouse training programs and union held classes on rigging that were recognized and sanctioned by OSHA.
I do know one or two things:
I have enough experience to know that if you try to lift things with rafter trusses, it will work, or if will fail.
I know that if you ask a structural engineer if it will work, they will simply tell you it is a bad idea.
I know if you go by the book, lifting by attaching to rafters is a no no. Especially when they are probably 2 x 4s.
I know that there are about ten thousand better ways to make this lift safely.
Like I said, hook it up. Lift it up. It will either succeed or fail. I have made many lifts and procedures that were out of the bounds of what it said in the book, and they worked.
Just watch from a safe position. Cause sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And that even goes for things you do the right way.
Whatever anyone does in the privacy of their own garage don't affect my life.
Bingo! Didn't I say something about a beam on top of the rafters? I thought I did. If I didn't, I was thinking it. It will either work or it will fail. It's a simple thing.
Steve, I think that you are right about 2x4 rafters. The only thing that I would hang on 2x4 rafters is myself if I wanted to commit suicide -- and even that only if I did not gain major weight.
My rafters, if I recall correctly, are 2x7. There is a 2x6 log on top of them and it is slightly concave, so it distributes the weight nicely, from farthest rafters to the center ones as load increases. Plus, this log is only about 6 feet away from the supporting wall. And even with all that, I would not go beyond 1,000 lbs. I tried 600 lbs and everything was fine.
I thought I just said that putting a beam over the rafters was a good idea. I thought I said that it might cause some distortion, but still hold.
I insisted on safety practices from all of my crews. Never had a man hurt badly, and never dropped anything big or important. (Biggest lift, 28,000#) I think lifting with rafters is a bad idea, yet I would do it if I could spread the load over more than two rafters.
MAJOR point: 150# is not a lot when spread out. More than that, I believe would start to become marginal and dangerous. In that case, I would still do it, but use some vertical shoring under horizontal supports with screw or hydraulic jacks, and then I would do it confidently.
Just me. What you do after you close your garage door is okay with me.
I think maybe I am overthinking this a bit, and thinking of worse case scenarios.
Your statement that your rafters are 2x7 makes the equation much more possible. Lots stronger. But, you have to admit, when you go to buy lumber, there are some with knots so big you can break them just by tossing them on the cart. You may have a rafter like that, and failure usually goes with a domino effect.
IF you are considering doing this in your garage on a regular basis, just make something as simple as two Ts to give you some added vertical support. Spread them a little wider than your truck. Use 4x4. Get some concrete screw jacks for the verticals if you can find them. If not, use 4x4s with a
2 ton bottle jack on top between the two pieces of the T. Pump it up snug, but not enough to make the ceiling lift. You will add lots and lots of strength.
Now, the important part. Set a limit. I would say you could lift a few hundred pounds with that one.
But, you are a welder now with advancing skills. Isn't it time you made something out of stout metal that you can either mount permanently or roll around, and KNOW that when you have something to load or unload that you will be doing it with a safety factor of 3? Batta bing, Batta bang, Loaded! No stress, no worry. An I beam on top with a Dayton dolly wheel setup will let you lift the load and roll it for a distance to load or unload your truck without having to drive in and out under it. Scrap steel is cheap in most places, and available. The dolly wheels and a decent hoist should cost you $2-300.
Point is, do your best to do it safely, and know when you are walking a fence safety wise, you could just fall on your head.
I like to know that I have things braced up or rigged so that it will hold
Good experience Steve but I see none in construction trades dealing with this kind of thing. Why not try being realistic and realize we're discussing 150# here.
Did you happen to try the experiment I suggested? Or perhaps you might think something this practical has no validity?
I've done 1400 lbs that way myself- used a spare 8x8 up above w/ a couple more 8x8 cutoffs beneath as spreaders to get across ~10 2x6 rafters. Hoist was 3' or so from the wall. The rig didn't visibly flex when the weight came on. But I'd hesitate to go much higher than that...
Shucks I'd put 150# on an eyebolt- but would never dork around with sistering 2x4's. Why bother when you can lag up 2x6's?
Myself, I'd just pick it up. If inconveniet or no place to grip slide it down a board. It's not likw we are dealing with a mill or lathe weighing several hundred(s) of pounds.
I don't know yet. I think it will involve a 2 x 4 that spans the bed and connects near the sidewalls of the bed. Might have posts that drop into the stake pockets with holes and pins.
I'll probably be doing this pretty soon because I have a safe to load. No hurry on it, but I should do it sooner than later.
That's what I will do -- pick up and slide down on a board.
Picking up 150 lbs is not difficult (for me), what's difficult is to set it on the ground safely (safely for my back, if I break these $6 power supplies, I would not cry). No room for any error or second guessing also once it starts going down, without support beneath.
How many times have you set up rigging using timbers, etc. in elevator shafts to raise or lower large machinery or equipment? I've done somewhere between 12 and 18.
How many times have you moved machinery out of fire damaged or rickety old buildings with weak floors? I've done about 40 to 50 of these.
How many times have you set wood cribbing to load or unload machinery or equipment up to 60,000#? I've done this hundreds of times.
How many times have you skidded and moved machines weighing anything between 500# and 100,000# using anything from softwood 2x4s to hardwood
12x12s. I've done this thousands of times.
Enough. This is called practical experience. This is pretty far from crane operation and since we also erected cranes I'll tell you it's nothing like that at all.
We both believe in safety but, I believe, because of your relative inexperience in the types of procedures I've noted above, you (and many others) tend to overkill to be on the safe side. And basically I don't argue with this idea. Stronger can't be less safe, right? And I say if someone wants to spend the extra time and money to feel safe: go for it.
What I do object to however is someone who has relatively little practical experience questioning my suggestions on the basis of safety. After all you'll never catch me questioning your suggestions about crane operation. Why don't you stick to the things you know best. Or at least ask a question instead of suggesting the fallacy of someone else's ideas.
Yeah. Realistically, it is entirely possible to lift such a small amount with the raftes. But for that, I'd find a ramp or dock or berm. Or just get a couple of workers. 150# is not a lot.
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