HumVee Armor Facts

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Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
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Gunner
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While your facts about Humvee Armor is interesting it still doesn't cover the real problem. The Humvee armor thing is more about the two factions with in the department of defense over which paradyme the US military will embrace over the next 20 to 30 years.
One side in the pentagon is all for this lighter, faster, more agile and lethal military, (Which interestingly enough is also much cheaper than the heavy armored forces favored by the more traditional minded of at the Pentagon. Of course you know which side of the isle the cheaper military falls on don't you.
The problem with the Humvee is that it wasn't designed to do the job we are asking it to do, as it was never supposed to be an armored personnel carrier. Even when armored up the troops in th field don't like it. As I have talked to a goodly number of returning Oregon national guardsmen and to the man they support having more APC's and less Humvee s.
As one Guardsman said, you know that when a armored Humvee rolls over on you you are just as dead as if you had been shot by an AK-47. Check out he number of GI's that have been killed in traffic accidents verses those killed in fire fights. (most traffic accidents are vehicle roll overs)
The Independent of Clackamas County
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The Independent of Clackamas C
Ayup. Seems like its time to get all those APCs that are stockpiled in Kuwait dusted off. But then...having armored behemoths running over little kids is always the way to make friends and influence enemies. No matter if an RPG will kill one just as well as a Hummer...shrug.
Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas
Reply to
Gunner
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show The Independent of Clackamas County wrote back on Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:45:03 -0800 in misc.survivalism :
Complicating the picture is the old "the better is the enemy of the good." Seems that one problems Hummers have is the windshield frames can hold the weight of four layer ballistic glass. Putting a two layer piece will work, is better than nothing, but the army doesn't want to go with "interim measures." More of the "Do it right or don't do it at all." mentality.
Reply to
pyotr filipivich
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner wrote back on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 03:44:40 GMT in misc.survivalism :
One of the military bloggers I read pointed out the sheer intimidation factor of the Abrams tank. Any thing which weigh 70 tons tends to shake the ground just driving down the road, which tends to cause people to think twice, first. Think "Fat Albert and the Buck-Buck Championship of the world." "we built a ramp so he could get up speed ... bricks are falling off buildings, children are grabbing mothers and getting off the street .. 'hey, hey, hey!' ... they saw one legs coming round the corner and all stood up 'we give! He ain't jumping on us!'."
But the war in Iraq didn't go according to the plan, and what they "need" isn't Bradleys and Abrams so much as "police" vehicles like the HMMWV. And a more "hands on" approach to the "peace". If we knew then what we know now, there would have been less of the traditional "get the old leadership" and more of the make friends with the local leaders and work with/through them. Sigh, this isn't your father's army. :-)
tschus pyotr
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pyotr filipivich
--The only problem with the Humvee is the Army's insistance on using it at all; domestic contract and keeping our workers employed making a shitty product. If this vehicle had been "outsourced" there would have been many superior vehicles to choose from and they would have been cheaper. For a good rundown on the Humvee problem check out the latest issue of Janes IDR. Check out the ads for similar vehicles, too. Humvee is the bottom of the barrel for urban assault vehicles; they should all be driven off a cliff.
Reply to
steamer
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show steamer wrote back on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:34:55 GMT in misc.survivalism :
Minor problem: the HMMWV is not an "urban assault vehicle", it is a replacement for the Jeep, One Each. It is a "small" personal transportation mode, not meant for combat operations. Think "staff car" for those who don't have a staff. Of course, this being the Army, sooner or later, everything winds up in combat.
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pyotr filipivich
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show pyotr filipivich wrote back on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:17:06 GMT in misc.survivalism :
Dang it, I need a new keyboard. That's suppose to read "the windshield frames can't hold the weight.."
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pyotr filipivich

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