Been researching trailers and found this:
Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you should put brakes on it?
Thanks again!
Summing moments about the axle and assuming uniform load, tongue weight is about 4.8% of load. That's a bit light, but workable.
10% to 15% is usually better. Just moving the load c.g. a bit forward would increase tongue weight.Depends on applicable state law. In MN it's 1500 lb. A load approaching 1500 lb without brakes significantly increases the stopping distance of a 1/2 ton pickup tow vehicle, and it could be dicey to drive in mountainous terrain.
Congratulations! You are beginning to do the math. Notice how it's a new language that explains how things -really- work?
Jim Wilkins
Can you have too much tongue weight?
Maybe move that axle back six inches would work?
When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?
If it "really" works why is that compnany building trailers that dont comply with the 60/40 concept?
Just load it right. It doesn't matter too much when the trailer is unloaded -- it's when the trailer & load weight start to get close to, or more than, the pulling vehicle weight that you need to start worrying.
I've seen trailers with the axles located exactly right but with the load put too far back, fishtailing down the road -- it's not like the trailer manufacturer can force the drivers to engage their brains.
Assuming the hitch on the tow vehicle has the proper rating, high tongue weight is good. Witness a big rig trailer, the wheels are at the extreme rear, the fifth wheel hitch at the front.
On the 14' trailer the ratios are ~46%-54% NOT including the tongue weight. If you move the axle 6" the ratio is ~43%-57% assuming a uniform load. In reality, it's the driver's job to position the load properly. The trailer does not force you to load it correctly.
to use an A frame with A frame coupler? An Engineer will look at the load on the tongue, if a single straight bar will provide the needed strength, then that's it. Side supports are needed some times, since the single bar is relatively weak in that dimension, and can also fail by "falling over". Double bars in an "A" configuration are stronger still. It all depends on the load.
with the 60/40 concept? It's your job to load a trailer correctly. Also, the distance from the hitch to the axle determines several things. A long distance will mean the trailer cannot make sharp turns, and will "cut the corner". Long distance is MUCH easier to back, since it is not very responsive. Long distance can mean more tongue weight, to the point where light trucks are not able to carry a fully loaded trailer. OTOH, a short distance from axle to hitch can make tight corners, can be nearly impossible to back up (try a double cab, long bed backing a tent trailer).
The problem with an improperly loaded trailer is that it is unstable. A tail heavy trailer will start to move sideways, then correct, then correct, like a dog's tail. I watched a trailer on HWY 80 North of Reno, tail heavy. He kept increasing the speed, until it went unstable. The trailer was going side to side about 6', to the point the load was shifting, and the trailer was on two wheels left, then two wheels right. If the load hadn't dumped, it would have pulled the tail of the truck off the hwy.
Travel trailer folks discuss this all the time, and know to hit the trailer brakes, at any sign of wagging.
Dave
Stryped,
Take the total length of the BODY only and multiply by .4. You get about 68. Yes, they have 78. That's about 10 inches difference. The
60/40 is a "rule of thumb" and doesn't have to be exact. You'll notice they do not include the tongue. This reminds me. Does you 10' trailer length include the tongue or are you allowing about 38 to 48" extra for that?Yes. You *should* put brakes on ANY trailer you plan to haul an 8N tractor on. What are you planning to pull it with? As someone else already mentioned the towing vehicle makes a lot of difference. If you're pulling it with a 1 ton truck with dual wheels you *can* *get by* without brakes a lot better than if you plan to pull it with a compact automobile.
Al
The 10 feet does not include the tongue. However, i am wondering if I could take those 10 feet pieces, weld 2 to 4 feet on the ends of them and make a 12 or 14 foot trailer. It was just a thought. (Again that would be without the tongue). I am thinking a 42 - 48 inch tongue.
Oh, my truck is a 96 chevy Silverado King cab with a 350 automatic and
4x4. It has a reciever hitch in the back.
That would bring tongueweight up to about 9% of load -- not including the weight of the tongue itself.
There are a number of variables, tongue weight is just an indicator. Variables included load weight, load distribution, length of tongue, distance from hitch ball to rear wheels, length of tow vehicle, weight and suspension of tow vehicle, yada yada. T.W. of 10% to 15% of load seems to nearly always work OK but it's just a rule of thumb. How you load it is just as important as the axle location.
If the trailer starts feeling skittish under way with a given load, slow down! Then stop soon to redistribute the load.
As a wild guess: these appear (on the website) to be primarily intended as trailers for landscaping and lawn service use. They may have learned from experience that such users tend to load trailers a bit front-heavy -- drive the mower clear to the front sort of thing. Makes it easier to secure the load. Lighter stuff gets tossed in the back, and so on.
It certainly looks like Tex Trailer knows what they're doing ... and they may also have learned how many of their customers use their trailers.
Some users may also load other stuff on the tongue closer to the hitch that has significant effect: e.g., welded-on tool boxes and/or spare wheels. A spare wheel is a very good thing to have on a trailer.
If it is easy to move the axle back about 9", I'd do so. If it isn't easy, I wouldn't worry about it.
It isn't hard to check tongue weight for a given load. Get a yardstick or tape, measure height of hitch, then stand on hitch and measure again. That deflection is your weight worth of tongue weight. You can thereafter use the tape or yardstick to estimate tongue weight of your load probably as closely as you can estimate the weight of the load itself.
Hint: if you have Mama assist, have her do the measuring rather than the standing. Muttering "HOLY SHIT" when she stands on the hitch while you measure could cause instability -- and I'm not tawkin' 'bout the trailer.
The only real difference is with a straight tongue you can get the angle a bit tighter when backing into a really bad spot. But that extra few degrees of turn usually is not useful.
A tongues are stronger. Triangle always trumps a single beam, all other factors being equal. And an A with a stem is two triangles back to back.
Welcome to "there are always trade-offs made in the design phase".
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Too much tongue weight can overload the hitch on the towing vehicle as well as lighten the front wheels making steering harder. You loose steering traction with less friction. An extreme example would be the front wheels coming off the ground.
A-frame tongue. All day long. I believe the angle is 50deg. Measure the angle from a coupler off the shelf before you design.
I made an extended hitch for my garden tractor that moved the ball far enough back to let the straight tongue of the trailer clear the rear wheels of the tractor when they are at right angles to each other. This lets me turn very tightly deep in the woods, where I should be logging right now instead of wasting time on the computer.
Jim Wilkins
For the back-yard weldor the A-frame has the disadvantage of concentrating the load on the welds. The straight tongue, extended, relies more on the strength of the tongue itself.
The straight tongue
+-----------+ | | | -----+--------- | | +-----------+The A-frame:
+-----------+`. | | `-. | | ," | | ,-" +-----------+,"A hybrid would be my preference:
+----------.=---------+ | "--._ | | ""-.| | |""-.__ | | "-.._ | | __,-" | |__,-" | __,-" | __,-" | +-----------"---------+Bob
BTW- ASCII art via JavE:
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