Kerosene Heater and De-humidifer Combo?

Whenever you burn a hydrocarbon, you'll get H2O and CO2.

Like any heating device if a kerosene heater is operated and maintained properly there is no problem using it inside for long periods of time. A dehumidifier would certainly add cost but, depending on the brand and etc., could be effective.

Just guessing but I imagine the amount of water to be removed won't be more than the amount of kerosene supplied (recombining the hydrogen in the kerosene with oxygen??). Maybe someone who understands the chemistry involved can tell us for sure.

dennis in nca

Perhaps take a moment to read the following:

Kerosene heater safety guidelines Follow these recommendations when buying and using a portable kerosene heater. Use only listed heaters

Only heaters that have been tested and listed in accordance with Underwriters' Laboratories (UL) Standard 647 should be purchased and used. This listing should be shown on the name plate of the heater.

Use the correct fuel

The National Kerosene Heater Association, the American Petroleum Institute, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and others recommend only 1-K kerosene be used in these heaters. According to American Society of Testing and Materials Standard D-3699, "Standard specifications for kerosene," there are two types of kerosene fuels,

1-K and 2-K. The primary difference is sulfur content. Type 1-K contains 0.04 percent sulfur by weight and 2-K contains 0.30 percent sulfur by weight. The higher sulfur content of 2-K fuel tends to adversely affect proper fuel wicking and increases sulfur dioxide emissions. The use of 2-K kerosene creates the need for frequent wick cleaning and maintenance that, if not carried out properly, may produce a fire or explosion hazard.

The distinction between 1-K and 2-K kerosene fuels cannot be made through visual examination. The terms "water clear" or "clear white" are often used to describe the type of kerosene that can be used in the unvented heater. Although water clear or clear white kerosene may be

1-K in most cases, color should not be used as a sole indicator. The type of crude from which the kerosene is refined, temperature, aging and contamination can all cause kerosene to yellow and become darker. So if the retail dealer does not specifically market the kerosene as the 1-K type of fuel, you should assume the product is not 1-K kerosene. Find a dealer who can certify you are buying 1-K grade kerosene.

In addition, never use diesel, jet "A" fuel, No. 1 fuel oil, No. 2 fuel oil or gasoline in your heater. The use of any of these fuels could result in a fire or explosion that could cause death or injury.

Proper clearances from combustible material

The heater should be kept a minimum distance of 36 inches from all combustible materials such as curtains or furniture unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer. If fewer than 36 inches are acceptable, the manufacturer will specify on the name plate. Do not use flammable solvents, aerosol sprays or lacquers near the heater. Do not operate the heater in the same room where other flammable liquids such as gasoline are stored. Don't operate in dusty environments. The surface temperature of some units can exceed 500 degrees F, which can ignite flammable liquids, combustible liquids, flammable vapors or grain dusts and result in a fire or explosion.

Provide required maintenance and upkeep

Consult your operator's manual for instructions or recommended maintenance and upkeep to ensure the heater's proper operation. Required maintenance should include periodically cleaning the unit, trimming the wick, cleaning off soot and carbon, inspecting for fuel leaks and other maintenance procedures recommended by the manufacturer. If you suspect the heater is not working properly, extinguish it immediately and allow it to cool. Then perform the necessary maintenance or take it to a qualified service center for repair.

Don't take a chance

An improperly operating heater can result in a fire or can generate an excessive amount of the byproducts of combustion: soot, carbon monoxide and sulfur dioxide.

Provide adequate ventilation

Adequate ventilation is necessary for safe operation of the kerosene heater. Burning kerosene consumes oxygen and produces carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and other gases. Ventilation must be provided to replace oxygen as well as to remove gases in order to prevent asphyxiation or respiratory problems. The manufacturer's recommendations should be followed to provide adequate oxygen for combustion; in many instances, this may require opening a window or a door leading to another room. If no specifications are listed in the manufacturer's literature, one rule of thumb is to provide 1 square inch of window opening for each 1,000 Btus of the heater rating. An example -- a 10,000 Btu heater may require opening an outside window 10 square inches to provide the necessary air intake. In an energy efficient home, additional air intake may be necessary.

Use only as supplemental heat

The heater should never be used as the only heat source, except in an emergency situation. Don't operate it while you are asleep because heater malfunction could cause asphyxiation. Do not leave a heater unattended.

Keep the heater out of the traffic flow

Place it in areas where there is little chance someone will bump into it. UL Standard 647 requires that in the tipped over position, the burner "flame shall not continue to burn longer than 30 seconds." The standard also requires "that kerosene discharged from the reservoir or the burner shall not be ignited" as a result of the heater tip-over. Although equipment must meet a strenuous test before it is "listed" by nationally recognized testing organizations such as UL, the equipment could fail or malfunction. So take care to prevent the potential for heater tip-overs.

Allow heater to cool before refueling

The heater should be allowed to cool for a minimum of 15 minutes before refueling. The surface temperature of many of the heaters can be as high as 500 degrees F. Kerosene has a flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid gives off enough vapors to form an ignitable mixture) of approximately 110 degrees F and an ignition temperature of 410 degrees F. If kerosene is spilled on a hot heater, it could ignite and cause a fire.

Refuel heater and store kerosene outdoors

Always refuel the cool heater outside in a well-ventilated area away from other ignition sources. Refueling should also be done in an area where small spills can be cleaned up quickly. Fuel should be stored outdoors in an approved blue safety can. "Kerosene" should be lettered on the safety can in a readily visible location. Never store kerosene in a red container that could easily be mistaken as a gasoline storage container.

Never overfill heater

When refueling the heater, leave sufficient space for fuel expansion. Follow manufacturer's refueling directions found in the owner's manual or on the name plate.

Do not let children operate or refuel the heater

Only an adult familiar with the operating and refueling procedures of the heater should be allowed to operate or refuel it.

Prevent burns

Warn children of the dangers of the hot surface temperature on the portable kerosene heater. Remember, the surface temperature of some heaters may be as high as 500 degrees Fahrenheit.

Develop a pre-fire plan

Every family should take time to develop and practice a pre-fire plan. In your plan:

Install and maintain a smoke detector system. Install one smoke detector per living level in accordance with National Fire Protection Association Standard No. 74, Standard for household fire warning equipment. Install and maintain a fire extinguisher. Install an approved multi-purpose dry chemical fire extinguisher in a visible and easily accessible location. Develop an evacuation plan. An evacuation plan should be developed and practiced by all occupants to ensure safe escape from the building in the event of a fire. Remember the plan is only good if everyone knows about it and has practiced it to make sure it works.

dennis in nca

OK, that makes sense, as it sounds like the tailpipe on a car.

Thanks.

I think I am going to use the heater and go from there. I think the dehumidifers I was looking at were around 600 watts.

I'll be venting the garage, as to not die from the oxygen delpletion, carbon monoxide, etc.

I am going to just use the heater for a little while, evaluate and go from there. Thanks for the advice.

I think the kerosene combines with the oxygen in the air to some ratio, and that is where it gets some of the water creation during burning. Either way, I need to see just how much moisture is going to be produce before and if I decide to get a dehumidifier.

Thanks.

Make sure that you can return this heater, and actually try it within the return period. They are worthless and unusable. By the time they warm up the area, they use up too much oxygen and produce too much pollutants. Ventilating the area does not help much, as that defeats the purpose of heating. It is impossible to work with so much crap in the air and less oxygen.

I had to return mine to Home Depot, I am glad that they took it back. It would give me bad headaches.

I tried one last year when I was working on my Onan DJE generator.

If you think about moisture, then you would see that cold machines would attract condensation. The fact that dehumidifier would remove some moisture is not very consoling, since condensation would still remain on the machines for a while.

i

Go ahead, just remember, you were warned. If you open a window or do something else to introduce oxygen, you will not experience oxygen depletion. That's fine for normal people, but you have a shop full of ferrous objects. When you burn any hydrocarbon, the basic reaction is that the byproduct is water vapor. In a shop, you HAVE to vent the kerosene exhaust completely or your machines will rust quickly.

You have been given some marginal advice. The guy who dumped the MSDS didn't realize that your concern isn't only safety for humans, it's also preventing rust to your machines. Water vapor in say a bedroom is a good thing. Often in winter the air is very dry and adding some humidity makes it feel warmer. That's why you see those cast iron kettles on wood stoves, just to add steam to the air. Yes, it's safe to use a clean well adjusted kerosene heater inside, but IT WILL RUST YOUR MACHINES.

I would never ever trust a dehumidifier. Not for one millisecond. Trust a chimney.

GWE

And, since your machines will be at least as cold as the air when you start, and the air will heat up more quickly than any metal you have, this means that most of that moisture will condense on the metal of the machines -- thus leading to very probable rust.

Good Luck, DoN.

To do a proper comparison you'll need some data, such as the heating value and chemical formulas for the two fuels. Propane is easy (C3H8) but kerosene is a mixture and its composition probably varies depending on the grade and source.

The combustion of propane is as follows, assuming 100% conversion:

C3H8 + 5 O2 => 4 H2O +3 CO2

The molecular weight of propane is 44 and water is 18, so you'll get around

1.6 lbs of water generated for each lb of propane burned.

According to this link, kerosene has the approximate formula C8H18:

then,

C8H18 + 12.5 O2 => 9 H2O + 8 CO2

or about 1.4 lbs of water per lb of kerosene burned.

Propane has a heating value of 21,500 BTU/lb and kerosene is 18,540 BTU/lb.

On a per million BTU basis, propane will produce 74.1 lbs of water and kerosene will produce 75.5 lbs of water.

Bottom line is that for all practical puposes, there is no difference in the amount of water vapor that either produces for the same heating duty. That assumes no errors on my part so feel free to do your own research .

Mike

Speaking of burning hydrocarbons... Today here in San Diego a huge fire erupted right front of Qualcomm stadium when a 4000 gallon fuel tanker flipped over. Burned for about 3 hours. They didn't try to extinguish because the fuel would have run into the river. Huge column of black smoke went straight up maybe 2500 feet.

Such drama. Kero heaters all come with instructions for how many square inches of vent opening should be used.

The humidity really can be a problem, though. I ran a kero torpedo for a few years in my garage.

A vented system is much better in a cold climate, and it'll cost less than the electricity to run a dehumidifier for a couple of seasons.

Actually, the largest machine currently in my garage is a 6" bench grinder. I usually keep it in a drawer when I am not using it.

I bought a carbon monoxide detector with a level gauge and a thermometer/hygrometer (humidity level). I am going to check various situations and see what works best.

Thank you for the suggestions.

dehumidifier

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

WOW!! Thank you for passing that along!

Thank you for sharing your experiences.