Kerosene Heater and De-humidifer Combo?

Personally I've never found this to be the case.

Most of the problems with kerosene heaters are in modern houses in which careful attention has been paid to eliminating infiltration losses so as to reduce heating costs. With no outside air to speak of coming in combustion products can build to a significant level. This is not usually a problem in a workshop.

It is quite possible to provide adequate ventilation without "defeating the purpose"--you don't have to have all the windows and doors open, just a couple cracked a little so you have some crossflow.

I had this problem in my garage in relatively cold weather. 0 degrees F or so.

It is possible that in warmer weather, the heater would not have to run as much and therefore there would be less air quality issues.

i

I am not familiar with those.

That one was right out of the store. I was not interested to mess with that heater to see if I can fix it, when it was clearly a bad choice.

I used it in my garage when outside temps were about 0 F, so it had to work quite hard to produce enough heat.

how convenient...

i

I use both a kero-torpedo heater and a propane space heater to boost the woodstove that is the primiary source of heat in my shop. Generally in very cold temps and just to get everything warmed up till the woodstove is fully fired.

Haven't seen any rust on my tools, I suspect that the woodstove drys things out. I don't even open a window when running either. I use high grade kero, up from $3 a gal last year to almost $5 this year.

DE

Well, this IS rcm! :)

That's an interesting assertion--but you'd have to run the numbers to bear it out. Where's Mike Henry when you need him? :)

Last year I discovered "ventless" natural gas radiant heaters. Thought I had died and gone to Thermodynamic Heaven! 'Til I started to use them....

First, I can only imagine what an unvented *kerosene* heater does to air quality--on "high", my ventless natural gas heater *absolutely affects* air quality--and I proly have more drafts in my shop than a fireplace! Second, the moisture can indeed be quite a problem--my manual lists the water output as a substantial number of *ounces* of water per 1,000 BTU's--quite in keeping w/ Mike's calcs.

OTOH, on very dry days, this is not a bad thing, to remove static electricity, esp. around 'pyooters, CNC, etc. Esp. if yer prone to nose bleeds, dry skin, etc.

I too have a dehumidifier. I recommend them highly, and have mounted mine

*above* my gas heater, to hopefully catch the vapor before it fully diffuses..

My strategy:

Radiant heaters I think are preferable to "regular" Natural gas burns cleaner than kero, *almost by definition*. I put mine on High upon opening shop, then keep it on low, if on at all. Altho the comments on machine-condensation give me pause about even this.... :( Hopefully the dehumidifier helps here, altho I must say that on dry days, even w/ the gas heater going, it does not turn on!!

I use 220 V baseboard electric heating, but run on 120V--"softer", more uniform heat. You can switch it to 220, for 4x the heat--and 4x the electric bill!! Dehumidifiers (really just a window A/C brought inside!) put out their full wattage rating as heat! Factor that in! Electric heat, altho more expensive per kw-hr, can be more economical because of it's ability to provide very localized heat--ultimate zoning, if you will.

Your lighting load is heat! Use more lights! Bring the wife's plants inside yer shop. :) In the summertime, I machine by flashlight... :( Use fans mounted up high to bring down the warmer air--can really make a difference, esp. w/ high ceilings. Ceiling fans are nice, but any fan will do.

*Get rid of drafts.* I agree w/ those who rec. venting gas/kero heaters, if using them full time, even tho it physically pains me to envision all that heat going up the proverbial chimney. You pay, one way or the other.

Thermal underwear? I think they make battery-operated underwear--for sure they make battery operated socks and gloves. The socks are to die for--really great, fwih.

---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll

Depends on th' amount of fuel burned per hr and th' rate at which your dehumidifier can collect water. I'd read that a rough guestimate is that you can get one gallon of water per gallon of fuel burned.

I'm not sure if that's correct, but I do know my shop (PNW) was dripping wet after 2-3 hours of being heated by a propane jet engine style heater. Likewise with a kerosene heater I tried after that. I never tried using a dehumidifier in conjunction with th' heaters.

I'm convinced that if one chooses to use propane, kerosene or oil burning heat sources, they should be direct vented (exhaust) outside.

Snarl

Well, I don't claim to be a combustion engineer but the approach to the "problem" and numbers used seem reasonable to me. What do you suppose happens to all that hydrogen in your kerosene?

Mike

>

May not be convenient, but it's necessary in space heated with kero or popane without venting. It works.

Per Snarl"

dehumidifier can collect water. I'd read that a rough guestimate is that you can get one gallon of water per gallon of fuel burned.<

Makes sense. But look at this:

At a site examining living in a sealed environment, they stated the average person exhales and perspires approx. 4 1/2 gallons of water per day. If you spend long hours in your shop or have others working with you do you notice an increase in rust??? In the average (if it's not well sealed, like mine) shop I doubt you can tell the difference in an extra gallon or two of moisture.

dennis in nca

I don't think so. That would mean that you have to drive 4.5 gallons per day. Even in the desert, I only drink 1 gallon per day at the very most. I believe the 4.5, but the units have got to be wrong.

I wonder what you were thinking when you mistyped "drink" as "drive". :)

i who does not drink and drive

That's too bad. Just think of the fun. Drive out to the desert, open the beers, and stomp on the gas. Only steer enough to prevent rollover. Go fast enough that the tires stay out of the dips. At the right time of the year you get to see how many jack rabbits you can mow down. Don't slowdown unless ya gotta pee. If'n ya do it right you can pee at the same time as you drive. Don't spill the beer. Don't drive your own car either. ERS

Why not just heat the shop with the car parked in the next stall? run a hose for exhaust out some port, start 'er up, let idle turn on the heater open the car windows. It'l be so warm in there you'll have machine naked

Might want to recheck that number Dennis, that's 576 oz's of fluid intake per day. Heh, that's 48 (two cases) 12oz curls in 24 hours, or

24 oz's per hour! Must've been for th' collective group?

Depends on how many girls I have in m' tent . Actually, we do camp quite a bit, well did anyway, and with my wife n' I there'd always be some moisture inside. More or less depending on dew point. Never anything close to a gallon tho.

Well, I sure could. After only three hours of that non-vented, propane heater, my shop was literally dripping wet. No girls inside either.

Snarl

Snarl (and others) rightfully correct Dennis:

intake per day. Heh, that's 48 (two cases) 12oz curls in 24 hours, or

24 oz's per hour! Must've been for th' collective group?<

I think I had my collective head up my collective butt.

If you go to

and go down to: "Surviving in a closed environment: Life beyond Earth" and go down the page to the chart you'll see where I got the numbers I mismanipulated.

The numbers there for respiration and prespiration are: 2.28 kg per person per day. The correct number is just over 5 POUNDS of water per day so make that around 5 PINTS of water per day. In weather that's making you sweat it's probably a lot more than that.

Environment is going to be the controling factor here. It doesn't take much imagination to intuit blowing warm moist air on a cold machine will produce condensation. So then the questions are: how cold a machine; how wet and warm the air. Looks like your mileage may vary.

As far as the noxious effect: Does anyone have a canary I could borrow?

dennis in nca

I did run the numbers using $/KWH rate effective at the time -- about

5 sents then, it's more now. A dehumidifier can spin the meter briskly. A vented natural gas unit heater has worked well for me. Additional appeal: it's overhead, takes zero floor space. YMMV.

Here is a follow up. I found a combination I am happy with. Keeping the attic's fold - up ladder/door open allows the garage to get "warm enough" (60 degrees) with apparently enough ventialtion. It was 30 degrees outside. It's only a little stinky and a lot warmer. Humidity is greater, but maybe by 10% or so. I think the cold, dry air form outside rushing in causes this. When the heater is run when it is rainging outside, humidity from outside coming in is far worse than what is caused by the heater. The CO detector has a "highest level recorded" memory setting. It is still on zero.

Just for testing purposes, I ran the heater with no ventialation for a while and it gave me a headache. When I ran it with the attic door open, I got no headache.

I suggest getting a hygrometer if moisture is a concern.

Thanks.

Not a bad thought, probabally quiter that the space heaters. I heard that a v8 produces enough excess heat for an days requirement of heat for an average sized house in an hour of operation.

Naked machining---now thats a novel concept. Except when I have to go out for more wood esp like last week when the high temp was

-10F Or when the lathe is throwing off little blue swarf... Seriously the space heaters jus speed up things..

DE