DG Classification - Kerosene

Can anyone tell me what the US/Canada Dangerous Goods classification for Kerosene (flash point 40degC) is, and what standard/clause calls that up?
I was recently told it was classed as a Combustible, but over here it's a Class 3 Flammable liquid.. a different animal entirely.
Thanks in advance, Cameron:-)
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Cameron Dorrough wrote:

Try www.ccohs.ca/products/databases/tdg.html
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up?
a
Thanks for the tip, but that doesn't help much. I don't want to buy the entire database (on CDROM or anything else) just for one answer. Any other ideas?
Cameron:-)
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Cameron Dorrough wrote:

Sorry, I did not really look at page and did not know they charged. I am at home, but if you do not get info. from someone else by tomorrow at this time, I will photocopy page from TDG manual at work and give you info.
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I'm not sure what it is that your after, but try this link.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/general/t/tdg/regulations/tdg001/part_12.htm#Class%203,%20Flammable%20Liquids
If you're concerned about an electrical classification within a refinery (as an example), that's an entirely different issue
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http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/general/t/tdg/regulations/tdg001/part_1 2.htm#Class%203,%20Flammable%20Liquids
(as an example),

I am actually.. but you're very close. That link certainly seems to indicate that Kero is classed as a Flammable in Canada - but it makes no reference to any particular Standard (NFPA? FM?? I'm not sure what you guys use).
The crowd that claimed it was Combustible (not Flammable) were a rather large (and respectable) US company - I just wanted to check out where they might have got their info from. It makes a massive difference to the electrical installation - and they stand to save heaps of $$ if they're right.
Cameron:-)
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Cameron Dorrough wrote:

The term " Dangerous Goods " only refers to the sale or transportation of hazardous materials. If electrical installation is involved with Kerosene, then TDG does not apply. I don't know about the rest of Canada, but here in Alberta, the Provincial Fire Code does use NFPA standards, but you should check into the codes of the particular province that you are dealing with. If it is a Territory, then the Federal standards will apply.
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http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/general/t/tdg/regulations/tdg001/part_1
refinery
they
Kerosene,
Hmm, okay - I didn't know that. Over here it does... by inference.

Do you know of any Federal standards that *define* what is a Combustible liquid and what is a Flammable liquid?
The people in question came from Minnesota.. but surely the same definitions apply throughout the US (and maybe Canada also) - no?
Thanks, Cameron:-)
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Cameron Dorrough wrote:

The only info I can find is;
Class 1 - Flamable Liquid, flashpoint below 37.8 deg. C
Class 2 & 3 - Combustible Liquid, flashpoint greater than or equal to 37.8 deg. C, but less than 93.3 deg. C
I believe that this is UL.
TDG has Flamable Liquid as flashpoint not greater than 61 deg. C .
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...hence the confusion. Thanks for the info - I think that outlines where my friends have gone wrong.
Can you quote a Standard number and Clauses for Class 1-3 by any chance?
Cameron:-)
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Cameron Dorrough wrote:

Sorry, I don't. Got info from Alberta Fire Code, which only makes reference to a number of standards at the beginning but does not cross reference anything.
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where
Yes, that's pretty typical. Thanks anyway - hopefully Walter can find something :-)
Cameron:-)
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Ah it is an electrical area approval that you're after....you'll have to adhere to CSA (Canadian Standards Association) guidelines. There is a national code called the Canadian Electrical Code (CEC) however some of the provinces also have their own provincial guidelines (example Ontario has their "Ontario Hydro" guidelines as does "Hydro Quebec", Nova Scotia Power, etc.).
What province are you doing work in? Keep in mind that you will have to have your design and any drawings approved by an Electrical Engineer qualified to "stamp" drawings in that jurisdiction.
Good Luck
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Cameron,
The Canadian Electrical Code (CEC) is essentially the same as the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is also known as NFPA 70. The old definitions (not IEC Zone system) were:
Group A - acetylene Group B - hydrogen or gases of equivalent hazard Group C - ethyl ether, ethylene or clyclopropane Group D - gasoline, hexane, naphtha, benzene, butane, propane, alcohol, acetone, benzol, lacquer solvent, vapors or natural gas.
Since kerosene has a higher flash point than all the Group D materials it seems you are safe as far as electrical area classification is concerned. That is why kerosene is used as jet fuel and lantern fuel, it's a lot safer. One thing to watch out for -- all this assumes the kerosene is at room temperature. It's a lot different if the stuff is heated to near its flash point.
Another caveat -- The paragraph above deals only with electrical ignition hazards. When you used the phrase 'dangerous goods' it sounds like you talking about trucking on public roads. A lot of other factors, such as toxicity, enter at that point.
Walter.

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safer.
flash
Walter, over here, all flammable or combustible liquids are classed as "dangerous goods" and come under the Australian Dangerous Goods (ADG) Code - for trucking - but.. The electrical installation standards refer to the ADG code in that, if the ADG says something is a "dangerous good" then you must take special precautions when wiring anything around it. That way you don't get the double-ups cited by Cosmopolite.
(I get the impression that the IEC Standards are a different ball-game entirely)
Based on your assessment of NFPA 70 (I don't have a copy) would you say that Jet Fuel is a Flammable or a Combustible? And on the basis of which Clause??
I'm trying to get a feel for your electrical installation requirements..
Thanks, Cameron:-)
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Looking again at the MSDS's downloaded from various parts of the US/Canada, the answer to my previous question seems to be "it depends who you talk to" so let me rephrase the question as follows:
Say I was asked to build a Jet-A1 (flash point = 40degC) fuel storage installation somewhere in the US of A. According to the Standards (eg. NFPA 70), are there any special requirements (eg. flameproof) I must comply with? which ones? and _exactly_ what do the Standards say??
Thanks, Cameron:-)
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