Shop heat question

Finishing up framing a 13'x36' shop area within my large shop. Walls and 8 foot ceiling fully insulated. All surfaces are 1/2" oriented strand board, along with a couple of double insulated windows looking into the bigger shop. There is 4" insulation in walls and 6" in ceiling. Concrete floor with vinyl tile. Power available for heating would be either electricity or propane.
Would like to maintain 50°F to keep machinery from rusting. Outside temperatures average around 36-38°F through the winter months. I don't require a warmer temperature for working. Can always place a small propane heater next to me if I'm going to stand in one place for a long time.
All suggestions greatly appreciated. BTW, ceiling will have 8 four-foot four-lamp fluorescent lights.
Thanks, Ivan Vegvary
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-Finishing up framing a 13'x36' shop area within my large shop. Walls and 8 foot ceiling fully insulated. All surfaces are 1/2" -oriented strand board, along with a couple of double insulated windows looking into the bigger shop. There is 4" insulation in walls -and 6" in ceiling. Concrete floor with vinyl tile. Power available for heating would be either electricity or propane.
-Would like to maintain 50°F to keep machinery from rusting. Outside temperatures average around 36-38°F through the winter -months. I don't require a warmer temperature for working. Can always place a small propane heater next to me if I'm going to -stand in one place for a long time.
-All suggestions greatly appreciated. BTW, ceiling will have 8 four-foot four-lamp fluorescent lights.
-Thanks, Ivan Vegvary
I'm still looking for a gas or propane forge that doubles as a space heater.
jsw
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Don't they all ?
--



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Unless the propane heaters are vented to the outside, they will generate a lot of water vapor. I would recommend that you try to find some dehumidifiers. A couple of them will provide some heat as well as reducing the humidity. In your area I might try getting a couple of used window air conditioners and mounting them so they cool the large shop and heat the small shop area. I would think that would be more cost effective than electric resistive heating. In your area I think the cost of electric resistive heating would be slightly cheaper that propane.
Dan
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Don, if the intent is to use them as dehumidifiers, then there's no need to heat or cool either space... heat and cool the same space (resulting in net heating), and run the collected water outside. (I use a 14KBTU unit as a high-volume dehumidifier AND heater for a large chemical drying room).
LLoyd
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On Jan 1, 7:34 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:> Don, if the intent is to use them as dehumidifiers, then there's no need to

You are right, but my thought was to use them as heat pumps.
Dan
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Finishing up framing a 13'x36' shop area within my large shop. Walls and 8 foot ceiling fully insulated. All surfaces are 1/2" oriented strand board, along with a couple of double insulated windows looking into the bigger shop. There is 4" insulation in walls and 6" in ceiling. Concrete floor with vinyl tile. Power available for heating would be either electricity or propane.
Would like to maintain 50°F to keep machinery from rusting. Outside temperatures average around 36-38°F through the winter months. I don't require a warmer temperature for working. Can always place a small propane heater next to me if I'm going to stand in one place for a long time.
All suggestions greatly appreciated. BTW, ceiling will have 8 four-foot four-lamp fluorescent lights.
Thanks, Ivan Vegvary
========= Propane will produce a lot of water vapor, which will readily condense out onto any colder cast iron surfaces and cause rusting because of dewpoint issues and so I would seriously suggest using an electric infra red spot-heater instead.
Other than that, you can figure that for all practical purposes, your flourescents will be serving double duty as strip heaters--( not necessarily a good thing in summer but...) just calculate the total wattage of your lighting buss and go ahead and turn them on in advance--if you're insulated well enough then it could even be that's all you really even need.
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Not only propane but unvented natural gas heaters will also produce a lot of water vapor.
The water vapor doesn't just condense on colder metal, it'll produce excess moisture where ever there are cooler spots with little or no air circulation, such as lower walls behind cabinets or other obstructions to air current circulation.
Some forced air flow will greatly improve currents in an entire space. I prefer to use something like a small table-top air filtration unit with a squirrel cage blower in it, pointing from one corner area toward the far/diagonal corner area.
One can improvise filters from cut-to-size filter kits instead of buying expensive made to fit brand name filters.. and I've added a grille that stands off from the front/intake grille, and cover the grille with painter/refinisher's tack cloth (sticky rosin treated cheesecloth) to catch most of the airborne dust before it reaches the internal filters, so easier maintenance and fewer filter replacements.
Forced circulation prevents a lot of problems associated with stratification of the air in a closed space when it's unoccupied. No worries about wasted energy, as the small blower motor's heat (maybe 20-50W) just adds to the room temp.
I agree that a small portable, radiant electric heater is very effective for a spot heater when needed. The designs with elements in straight quartz tubes and a polished reflector to direct the pattern of the infrared heat, are very practical, IMO.
--
WB
.........


"PrecisionmachinisT" < snipped-for-privacy@123notmail.com> wrote in message
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PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

This only applies to *unvented* gaseous fueled heaters, there are plenty of vented options available. Look for a salvage RV furnace, these run on propane and are fully vented with external exhaust and combustion air. Given the better insulation one unit should have no problem heating the space. The larger mobile home wall furnaces would also work.
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Except what the op had said was:
"Can always place a small propane heater next to me"
If you would read the original post before opening your pie hole then next time you might not look like such a goddamned fool.
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Must suck, to have people like me on the list.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
If you would read the original post before opening your pie hole then next time you might not look like such a goddamned fool.
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Fluorescent lights as the only heat source?
If you would read the original post before opening your pie hole then next time you might not look like such a goddamned fool.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Other than that, you can figure that for all practical purposes, your flourescents will be serving double duty as strip heaters--( not necessarily a good thing in summer but...) just calculate the total wattage of your lighting buss and go ahead and turn them on in advance--if you're insulated well enough then it could even be that's all you really even need.
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that's not what he said, Stormy. He was responding to a post where electric or propane heating was the primary source, and the lamps (albeit low output) would be _adding_ to the heat gain.
LLoyd
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Oh, yah, back pedaling. Go for it, keep trying.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

that's not what he said, Stormy. He was responding to a post where electric or propane heating was the primary source, and the lamps (albeit low output) would be _adding_ to the heat gain.
LLoyd
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Not me, Stormy... it wasn't my post... I was just doing what they call "reading"... not that it means much these days.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

Trouble is, they don't radiate infrared and the heated air from the ballast stays near the ceiling.
jsw
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Not _quite_ true.
It's true that most of the heat stays near the ceiling, because most of it is conducted away from the housing by convection. However... (It's SCIENCE!) ALL objects warmer than their surrounds also radiate in the infrared. (Hint... infrared IS "heat". Radiation is one of the three ways heat moves)
<G> LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

When I told my Ph.D. boss about my 4-layer insulated windows he calculated the radiant heat flux through them in his head. It was essentially irrelevant above freezing, considering the 10-micron infrared behavior of older iron-bearing window glass. However I made curtain liners from aluminized cloth just for good measure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%E2%80%93Boltzmann_law http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/grnhse.html
I had an undergrad summer research grant that involved quite a lot of infrared spectroscopy using NaCl and KBr optics and sample holders. The wavelengths I've worked with in long-wave infrared optics and microwave electronics nearly meet.
jsw
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

If you want to actually see the heat losses and find any bad spots get in contact with a local fire department and have them bring out their TIC and actually look it over. That will show you a LOT of info quick.
--
Steve W.

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