Labor Savin' update

Well , I got the winch mounted on the top beam of the jib crane , and
added a 2 3/4" pulley for the cable above the beam for a little more
height . I've changed my mind about using the *battery I ordered , I'll
be using the tractor battery for power . I did a test run a little while
ago and unloading one load of wood from the yard trailer doesn't drain
the battery enough to notice . Since I use the tractor to haul the wood
out of the forest it gets recharged between uses with the winch .
I considered adding a pulley and doubling the cable back to an anchor
point on the top beam , but after today's test run I don't think that
will be necessary . The loads ware way below the winch capacity , even
for the biggest rounds I'll be handling . I noticed very little
difference in cable speed between loaded and unloaded and the speed is
just about right for this task .
*
A couple of years ago I was given a UPS that needed a new battery .
Guess what ? The battery I ordered for the hoist is exactly the right
size for the UPS ! I'll be hooking the UPS up to my computer surge
protector and the telephone/modem/router surge protector . We get
occasional flickers in the power line , this will eliminate those
annoying delays waiting for the modem to reconnect . I'm a-comin' outta
this one smellin' like a fresh-baked apple pie ! <smells much better IMO
than a rose>
Reply to
Snag
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* A couple of years ago I was given a UPS that needed a new battery . Guess what ? The battery I ordered for the hoist is exactly the right size for the UPS ! I'll be hooking the UPS up to my computer surge protector and the telephone/modem/router surge protector . We get occasional flickers in the power line , this will eliminate those annoying delays waiting for the modem to reconnect . I'm a-comin' outta this one smellin' like a fresh-baked apple pie ! <smells much better IMO than a rose>
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
I have crowbarred a LOT of batteries from APC UPS boxes.
You have to wonder: 1) What's wrong with the charging circuit that the batteries respond so destructively? 2) Why don't they design these enclosures so the batteries don't get stuck inside?
Reply to
rangerssuck
I have crowbarred a LOT of batteries from APC UPS boxes.
You have to wonder: 1) What's wrong with the charging circuit that the batteries respond so destructively? 2) Why don't they design these enclosures so the batteries don't get stuck inside?
======================================================== The batteries came out easily after I Googled the APC1400 instructions, which are to pry the top of the plastic front control panel off forward and unscrew the metal plate behind it.
FWIW, I've read that AGMs swell after one cell shorts and the others overcharge. The 12V 18A AGMs I buy used and keep as jumpstarter spares have never bulged from my intermittent recharging procedure but they do occasionally lose a cell to old age (5~8 years). The battery voltage appears normal during slow recharging but the current never tapers down below 0.01C at the recommended float voltage like a good AGM, and a load test afterwards quickly drops the battery to 10V. I use jumpstarters with Andersons as safely-packaged portable 12V DC power sources, like for my car freezer.
A few weeks ago the electrolyte level in my 2017 solar batteries was right where it was a year ago, touching the bottom of the filler well. Neither the APC nor my solar controllers, which are set to the same 13.6V non-bubbling float voltage, lowered the level at all. Measuring a clearance below the filler well such as the 1/8" that Trojan specifies is too fussy for me.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
I've had to disassemble some UPS because of the swelling. You couldn't get anything between the battery and the struts of the frame. The old battery had swollen a half inch wider than the opening.
It's obvious, isn't it? You can't wait for a trickle charge for the battery, in case there is another outage . That requires a higher charging current. Add the high discharge current and you are abusing the batteries. A proper setup would use a much bigger battery, rated to charge and discharge at a higher rate than how you are using it. The telephone central offices float charged their batteries, and some battery banks at Central offices were in constant use for 25 years.
As the sealed UPS batteries age, the internal resistance goes up. That causes internal heating. When it gets bad enough, the boiling electrolyte cause the case to swell a little, each cycle until the user finally has it serviced. The same thing happened to the ole mounted UPS we had in Cable TV system. The cheap ass manager refused to replace bad batteries until they leaked, or they burnt up the inverter/charger boards. The few batteries he did buy weren't the right sealed, deep charge batteries, they were $29 car batteries from Kmart. Those lasted one or two short outages, instead of four years. These had a 60V, 15A square wave output that was similar to the pole mounted Constant Volt Transformer supplies that regulated the supply to the amplifier housings.
Reply to
Michael_A_Terrell
It's obvious, isn't it? You can't wait for a trickle charge for the battery, in case there is another outage . That requires a higher charging current. Add the high discharge current and you are abusing the batteries. A proper setup would use a much bigger battery, rated to charge and discharge at a higher rate than how you are using it. The telephone central offices float charged their batteries, and some battery banks at Central offices were in constant use for 25 years.
As the sealed UPS batteries age, the internal resistance goes up. That causes internal heating. When it gets bad enough, the boiling electrolyte cause the case to swell a little, each cycle until the user finally has it serviced. The same thing happened to the ole mounted UPS we had in Cable TV system. The cheap ass manager refused to replace bad batteries until they leaked, or they burnt up the inverter/charger boards. The few batteries he did buy weren't the right sealed, deep charge batteries, they were $29 car batteries from Kmart. Those lasted one or two short outages, instead of four years. These had a 60V, 15A square wave output that was similar to the pole mounted Constant Volt Transformer supplies that regulated the supply to the amplifier housings.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
Jim, your message was dimmed out and won't quote, since you didn't delete the two dashes, followed by a space at the bottom of my message and above the sigfile.
Reply to
Michael_A_Terrell
It's obvious, isn't it? You can't wait for a trickle charge for the battery, in case there is another outage . That requires a higher charging current. Add the high discharge current and you are abusing the batteries. A proper setup would use a much bigger battery, rated to charge and discharge at a higher rate than how you are using it. The telephone central offices float charged their batteries, and some battery banks at Central offices were in constant use for 25 years.
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When I was the Segway battery tech my boss was a former APC engineer who told me a lot about that business.
A UPS is a grudge purchase you hope you won't need, like insurance. As a result their prices and features are as minimal as possible, especially the low end consumer models. Design standards are quite different between consumer, industrial and military products, as you can see in IC data sheets. The heatsink may be just a block of aluminum whose thermal mass matches the energy it absorbs during one discharge of the internal battery, to avoid the cost of a fan. My Newpoint UPS shuts off after 30 minutes on battery, likely for the same reason. That's why they burn out if you attach a larger external battery and run them near full capacity.
An industrial UPS design like the APC 1400 provides fan cooling, a true sine output, user programmability and twice the load capacity for 10 times the price, $700 vs $70. Engineers don't like designing the cheapest possible products, they do it to keep their jobs, and the public usually can't judge quality and buys lowest price. The discontinued bulletproof Maytags that last 50+ years are a good example, another is that only a small percentage of Amazon reviewers can evaluate the good and bad points of the product.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
Jim, your message was dimmed out and won't quote, since you didn't delete the two dashes, followed by a space at the bottom of my message and above the sigfile.
(-- ?) Never piss off an Engineer!
They don't get mad.
They don't get even.
They go for over unity! ;-)
==================================== I wouldn't notice details like that because I use Windows 7 Live Mail which copies postings verbatim. That's why I add the separator. WLM wasn't the first newsreader I tried when I changed from XP to 7 last April, but it was the first I could properly configure for Eternal September's servers.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
Just because WLM doesn't obey the Internet standards is not reason you shouldn't assist it to.
Reply to
Clifford Heath
When I bought a low end APC UPS I wasn't so worried about the maximum run time on the battery so long as it more than covered the time for the UPS notice of power failure via the RS232 connection to allow my Linux box to shut down gracefully and preserve data, continuous running was not a concern.  That APC UPS did fail when the battery died but I never bothered to replace it as all the filing systems I have used in recent years were journalling and didn't get corrupted if the mains failed, well JFS did but it was new at the time, XFS seemed fine as proven and now using Ext4 with no problems. I had used XFS on a previous Linux distro but swapping to a newer one it wasn't an option so tried JFS but not for long.
Reply to
David Billington
I use Seamonky with Eternal September. Thunderbird works with it, as well.
Reply to
Michael_A_Terrell
$700 was cheap, compared to what we had to pay for a rack mounted UPS at a CATV Headend to keep two computers based on the Motorola Exorcisor bus, and an external SMS disk storage (Two Shugart 8" drives. It was designed as a word processing system in the late '70s) system running. Each of the computers generated six NTSC text outputs to feed modulators. The 8" disks stored our locally produced program guide. One active, one backup. The OS was ROM based, so the disks containing the text files and configuration pages (blocks).
It took three of us to lift that monster UPS into the rack.
Reply to
Michael_A_Terrell
When I bought a low end APC UPS I wasn't so worried about the maximum run time on the battery so long as it more than covered the time for the UPS notice of power failure via the RS232 connection to allow my Linux box to shut down gracefully and preserve data, continuous running was not a concern. That APC UPS did fail when the battery died but I never bothered to replace it as all the filing systems I have used in recent years were journalling and didn't get corrupted if the mains failed, well JFS did but it was new at the time, XFS seemed fine as proven and now using Ext4 with no problems. I had used XFS on a previous Linux distro but swapping to a newer one it wasn't an option so tried JFS but not for long.
===========================================
I use the true-sine APC 1400 to back up the refrigerator and freezer when a strong squall line (today) or ice storm passes. Area-wide power outages can last over a week here.
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Reply to
Jim Wilkins
I can see that would need a more serious UPS and battery store to keep going for that duration. In my location in the UK I think the longest outage I've experienced in the last 27 years has been about 1.5 hours and a couple of periods of low voltage around 165V instead of 230V - 240V which isn't suppose to happen but can but I know enough to turn the fridge off everything else worked fine. Is the outage duration down to ageing infrastructure or maybe a rural location? When I lived in the US outages were of short duration but I lived in fairly populated locations in New York state, Connecticut, and Kansas.
Reply to
David Billington
I can see that would need a more serious UPS and battery store to keep going for that duration. In my location in the UK I think the longest outage I've experienced in the last 27 years has been about 1.5 hours and a couple of periods of low voltage around 165V instead of 230V - 240V which isn't suppose to happen but can but I know enough to turn the fridge off everything else worked fine. Is the outage duration down to ageing infrastructure or maybe a rural location? When I lived in the US outages were of short duration but I lived in fairly populated locations in New York state, Connecticut, and Kansas.
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I haven't seen data but I think a major contributor is large trees that fell on the lines, especially in rural and older, less tightly packed suburban areas. Since the downed power lines may still carry 20,000V we can't all just go out and clear them ourselves. We like our trees, and their shade on humid 35C summer days.
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The cost to remove trees from near roads and houses can be very high when it requires a $125,000 crane that can reach the top of a 30 meter tall tree on the far side of a house. I managed to split the bill with a neighbor when he wanted several removed, then sawed my three >20" diameter oaks into beams, lumber and firewood.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
Call me cynical... but having to go without power for days at a time and the Power Company requesting a rate hike to fix it is very persuasive...
Reply to
Leon Fisk
Call me cynical... but having to go without power for days at a time and the Power Company requesting a rate hike to fix it is very persuasive...
Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI
======================================================== The big trees are being cut down, gradually, as the owners decide to. I've removed over a dozen.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
... My notes give the as-received APC 1400 float setting (for internal AGMs) as 27.60, 2x 13.8V, where my flooded batteries fizz slightly....
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This explains APC UPS programming and serial cables in detail.
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At the end it lists the native commands you can send using Win XP's Hyperterm. APC is unhappy that their proprietary language was reverse-engineered and published and won't help you mis-use their products in solar power systems.
Reply to
Jim Wilkins

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