New kitchen faucet installed; old faucet autopsied

Well, I finally decided on a American Standard "Reliant" model

4205.001.002 in polished Chrome. It has the traditional hot and cold feeds ("city shanks") at the outside of the base plate. This is how the current faucet is set up, greatly simplifying installation, which took an hour. The feeds are made of brass.

This faucet works quite well, with a spout an inch longer and an inch higher than the old faucet. It is also a factor of 1.67 heavier, far more than expected from the slight increase in spout length. The new faucet cost $100 delivered from Faucet.com.

The old faucet was an American Standard "Cadet" model 8411F, in polished Chrome, for $60 or so from Home Depot. The spout leaked from a pinhole in the bottom side of the spout tube, and from the rotating seal at the base. The rotating seal had been leaking for some time, undetected. This after only 2.5 years, far too short.

First, the old spout. I sectioned it with a bandsaw. It turns out that the spout tube is made of sheet brass 0.032" thick. There is a lengthwise seam along the bottom of the spout, and this seam was not fully formed or sealed, and the pinhole formed in the seam about three inches from the hub.

There is no sign of solder or braze metal along the seam, although the tube appears to be brazed to the hub. The tube may have been welded, as there was some "burr" (weld flash?) along the seam. One can see the seam crack along parts of the bottom of the spout, right through the chrome plating, and one assumes that these places would soon have sprung a leak as well.

The new spout is made of "cast brass", while the old spout is made of "brass", according to the spec sheets. The cast brass spout may account for the increased weight - walls will be thicker, and there will be no seam. By my measurements, the new faucet weighs 5.5 pounds, while the old faucet weighs 3.25 pounds, the difference being 2.25 pounds, which is plausible for the spout.

Now, the old rotating seal. Although water dribbled out from between the hub and the post upon which the hub rotates, it turned out that the two big greased rotating O-ring seals were not the problem, despite appearances.

What had happened was that at least one seal inside the post leaked. The leak happened only when the faucet was on, so the leak had to be from the spout-feed part of the valve, not the hot and cold inlet parts. The valve is a ceramic-disk type, and works perfectly. The post is made of multiple pieces of brass and nylon held together with three stainless steel machine screws, and things were pretty corroded inside, in places that should not be corroded. I recall seeing some drops of water when I first installed the old valve (which little leak went away soon thereafter), so I bet this always leaked.

The seal that leaked is a rubber tube stub in a tight-fitting channel (made of nylon) and compressed lengthwise. The tube stub is 0.500" in diameter, 0.25" long, with walls that are 0.067" thick, and is made of a fairly stiff kind of rubber. This stub tube didn't seat correctly, for some unknown reason. The design is not pressure-activated, unlike an O-ring. The new faucet appears for the parts diagram to use only O-rings. I bet I can guess why.

I think I'll complain to American Standard. This ought to be amusing.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn
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That's $2.65 cheaper than Amazon Prime. The extra weight is good. You know you have brass there.

Had you taken it apart and de-limed it? They can get a buildup on the outside which tips them, causing a situation where the o-rings can leak.

Interesting. Perhaps brass isn't formed into tubing?

Weird!

Ayup.

They'll say "Oh, you should have come to us before buying the new one. We would have given you one. Too late now!"

Reply to
Larry Jaques

I was going to, but lost interest when the spout sprung a pinhole leak. When I did take it apart during the autopsy, I found no signs that lime had undermined the O-ring seals, although the assembly was in dire need of a clean and grease operation. I did clean all the relevant surfaces

- they are all smooth and sound.

As discussed below, the spout is a roughly rectangular tube fabricated from sheet brass, and it's the long seam where the pinhole formed.

We shall see. For sure, I did not want another Cadet. And my wife wanted a larger faucet.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

Yeah, little things like that tend to help us make up our minds.

Got silicone grease? It's the best stuff I've ever used in plumbing and it makes a hard task much, much easier. I picked up a little tin of it from the local plumbing and electrical distributor for a couple bucks, and it should last a decade or more. It's hell getting back off your fingers, but if I can remember, I don nitrile gloves before using it. Good stuff, Maynard.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Yep. I discovered it years ago. It's particularly good for the hot water parts of the assembly - seems to resist washout better than anything else I know of.

I just wipe it off my fingers with a paper towel applied aggressively.

ACE Hardware stores sell it now.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

This is now the third faucet that has leaked in the very same place and I ?m done! I?m thinking about drilling out the hole and putti ng a proxy in it but I?m wondering whether epoxy is any stronger th an the base metal I am repairing. I bought all three faucets from the same local vendor and I?m definitely taking this one back and getting c redit but the fact remains it?s been three faucets the same brand a nd the same symptom....shame on me...

I apprised my wife of the situation and told her that maybe we need to th ink about buying one of the top tier faucets ...

Reply to
hesynergy

This makes no sense...what hole and where's the leak? It doesn't seem it's the faucet's fault if it is that the hole through the sink to mount the faucet is so severely damaged that water can get around the base...

Reply to
dpb

It?s IN the faucet

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Reply to
hesynergy

American Standard, but how old?

1980s?

Nasty corrosive breech.

Reply to
Spain

If that is what it appears to be which is water pissing out of a porous patch in the casting then that would be a manufacturing fault which might be covered by consumer rights legislation depending on your locality and the age of the item. Not had any issues like that myself but I know the mixer tap fitted by the previous owner at my place was replaced at some cost because he didn't know how to disassemble the unit and it only required a couple of new O rings to renew the worn seals and sort the leak.

Reply to
David Billington

How often do you clean your aerator assembly? I'm on a well and see that clog frequently (

Reply to
Larry Jaques

One last thing. If you use epoxy, make sure it's food-grade.

- If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin. -- Samuel Adams

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Edible epoxy...that explains some of my cousin's cooking!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

On Jul 20, 2017, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote (in article):

I had this happen with American Standard, on their low end. The spout is brass sheet formed into a spout form, with a long seam along the underside of the spout. The seam corroded through, yielding the pissing as pictured, but in the center of the bottom.

Solution was to upgrade in the AS line to something with a cast brass spout.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn

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