gasoline blowtorch

I just picked up a Turner T15C gasoline blowtorh, "new" and unused with instruction manual but a little shelf worn last week. From the appearance,
it's probably 30 or more years old.
The leather gasket in the pump is good, the check valve is good, the wick looks fine and the orifice isn't clogged, but something like rust or black powder came out and there appears to be no seal along the valve shaft and the packing nut on the read. One website suggests this can be replaced with grahpited string, like on a steam radiator valve.
I went ahead and fired the thing up with camping gas and it did light but made a weird pulsating sound, a little faster than once a second and the flame never really looked right with a yellow tip.
I also noticed that in the off position, the needle from the needle valve actually stuck out from the orifice itself by about 1/16th of an inch. I suspect this isn't right.
Any tips for dealing with and fixing these things? The stuff on this site really doesn't really dig too deep
http://www.blotorches.com/torchfix/torchfix.html#operational
Any good stories of using these or advanges to propane torches?
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On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:50:22 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

I dunno about the other stuff but the needle valve is probably supposed to stick out so that it cleans the orifice. Oh, and the pulsating may be because it is not getting hot enough or because the fuel flow out of the orifice is not consistent. This may be caused by a clogged filter or by the fuel passage under the burner assembly being partly plugged with carbon deposits. Eric
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:01:50 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Ditto the stickout.

Yes, they run rough until really hot, when they start vaporizing the gas, but...

It could be from a partially plugged vent to the fuel chamber, too, like a plugged 2-stroke gas cap. Look on top of the fuel catch trough at the back (IIRC; It has been a long while.)
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:21:14 -0800, Larry Jaques

I must have been thinking of something else when I wrote that last paragraph. <whap> Wake up, Lar. Never mind me. I've been lounging around in space all day, reading "To Honor You Call Us" (Man of War Book 1) ;)
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:01:50 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Unlikely, being a "new in the box, old stock" item.
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On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:01:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yep, unlikely. I would check anyway if nothing else worked but N.O.S. would tend to make carbon clogging unlikely. I read his message twice and still put that bit in about carbon. My only hope now is that he tries everything else and then finds a bunch of carbon clogging things up and vindicates my advice. Thanks for pointing out my goof. Eric
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I suspect it is. Pushing the needle through the oriface varies the ORIFACE area, instead of just the liquid flow TO a fixed oriface. That makes it work properly at a range of pressures, instead of just at one.
Lloyd
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BTW... did you fill the generator cup, and get the generator _good_and_hot_ before trying to light the thing? It's NOT liquid-fueled at the burner. It's gas(seous) fueled at the burner, just like a Colman lantern.
If you didn't get the generator hot first, it's going to do all sorts of choking and pulsing, and even shooting out burning liquid.
What you describe sounds like there's still liquid fuel reaching the burner.
Lloyd
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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

I did take a peek at the air inlet and there wasn't an stream of liquid gas once it was up and sort of burning.
I'll check on the filter screen, repack the valve stem area and give it another shot this week.
There's anecdotes on the internet that propane is hotter, and that gasoline torches are hotter. Kind of eager to find out what the deal really is.
For whatever reason, I tend to end up with more and more propane cylinders that don't reseal when taken off a torch. Pretty obnoxious.
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good score.
I'm down to one can of real MAPP. I see there's stuff in yellow cans, but it's not the real deal. Not sure how it behaves compared to the real stuff.
I used to use real CFCs in a can for spot cooling electronics, none of the safer for the ozone stuff behaved anything like the real stuff.
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On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 01:37:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

I virtually ALWAYS leave them on the torch, for that reason. The coleman stuff is AWFULL - the genuine bernzoMatic tanks have not (generally) caused a problem for me.
I have an "adapter hose" for running coleman stove off 20 lb cyl that I have my torch head attached to - shouldn't run out of propane for the torch for another 10 years or so!!!
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wrote:

Absolutely! Like Ig, YOU SUCK!
When I was down in Medford the other week at my buddy's place, we used what I thought was mapp gas to heat a valve on a refrigerant tank to remove the valve. It turns out it was propylene gas, which I'd never heard of. It was evidently silversoldered on, so we cut, drilled, and tapped a 3/8 female air hose and I now have a smaller spare air pig. It should work well with my HF stapler/nailer. The larger tank (6-5gal) gave me over 100 staples before it fell below the 55psi required to work the gun properly.
Anyway, he had a new toy, a $69 quad rotor, which we played with. There were some 5-8mph gusts and it took that cheapy and tossed it all over. It's a calm-day-use-only model, I guess. The larger and heavier (and more costly) models don't get bumped around (as much) by the wind.
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Ditto: I asked that, too.
I'm betting not.
Lloyd
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good call. I re-dissambled it and the "rust" that came out does appear to be a completely deteroriated seal, so yeah, air might be sucked in somehow along the valve stem.

I just got a can of "Crown camp fuel" "for gasoline lanterns and stoves". The original manual says "any clean gasoline" or "white gasoline". The crown stuff has a rust inhibitor so I got that, the colemen stuff on the same shelf at REI didn't. Nobody really knew the exact differences between the crown, coleman and MSR branded fuels. The stuff seems to smell more like naptha than plain gas.

This is good to know then. I need to figure out how the shut off really works, or what the seal in there is or was.

I did fill the cup and light that to heat up the burner. Prior to that I did a leak test and the fuel valve does leak a bit but when opened makes a nice stright jet of gasoline. Once warmed up, no more stream of gas came out, but what I assumed to be vapor.

I saw this one- but I was working outside. It was no real surprise there was gas all over the place when I was done.
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Will pick up some of that unmeltable graphite string stuff.

That would make sense. It's interesting none of these products really state what they are, although some claim to be "better".

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wrote:

Leaded fuel ruins the generator on them pretty quickly - but then other than AveGas or racing fuel, that's not an issue today.

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On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:50:22 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

Let's put it this way - there is more than one reason they virtually dissapeared when BernzoMatic introduced the propane torch in the 'fifties. Otto Bernz's new propane torch made his old "always reliable" gasoline torch obsolete virtually overnight.
The gasoline (and in europe, Kerosene) blowtorches have a fussy "generator" that needs to be pre-heated to vapourize the fuel before it works right. There is a "puddle tray" under the generator/nozzle that you need to fill with fuel by dribbling it out the nozzle. You then light the "puddle" and let it smoke for a while to warm the generator - then you open the needle valve to see if you are still getting liquid or vapour. If still liquid, shut the valve and let it continue to heat. When you get vapour it will light and burn smoothly. If there is any liquid you get the "putt-putt", the yellow flame, and low heat. If the generator carbons up it has to be dissassembled and cleaned.(or more likely replaced - they are fragile and fussy from what I remember) It has, if I remember correctly, a spring like heat exchanger in it that can be easily damaged. (just like in the old coleman stoves)
If it is a brass one, polish it up and show it off on a shelf in your shop. I used to have a couple real nice ones - but only used them a few times, along with a big "tinner's copper" for soldering eaves troughs, and for thawing pipes on the farm.
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To: snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:01:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yep, unlikely. I would check anyway if nothing else worked but N.O.S. would tend to make carbon clogging unlikely. I read his message twice and still put that bit in about carbon. My only hope now is that he tries everything else and then finds a bunch of carbon clogging things up and vindicates my advice. Thanks for pointing out my goof. Eric
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wrote:

Absolutely! Like Ig, YOU SUCK!
When I was down in Medford the other week at my buddy's place, we used what I thought was mapp gas to heat a valve on a refrigerant tank to remove the valve. It turns out it was propylene gas, which I'd never heard of. It was evidently silversoldered on, so we cut, drilled, and tapped a 3/8 female air hose and I now have a smaller spare air pig. It should work well with my HF stapler/nailer. The larger tank (6-5gal) gave me over 100 staples before it fell below the 55psi required to work the gun properly.
Anyway, he had a new toy, a $69 quad rotor, which we played with. There were some 5-8mph gusts and it took that cheapy and tossed it all over. It's a calm-day-use-only model, I guess. The larger and heavier (and more costly) models don't get bumped around (as much) by the wind.
--
The problem with borrowing money from China is
that thirty minutes later, you feel broke again.
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