OT: Canadian Mapping Software

Hey Pete,
I use and like MS Streets & Trips 2002, but I don't have a GPS, so I don't know about inputs/outputs, but there is a set-up for it in the program.
The MSS&T 2002 has more streets and roads shown/drawn than named in the smaller or outlying places. The place I live in now is called Bothwell, and it is not found in a name search, nor are any of the streets named in the program, but they are all drawn. So I can put the cursor in the program on where my house is approximately (within a hundred feet) and it shows it as being at N42.63527 W081.86799. That's close enough for me! But immediately to the north about 2 miles, and even though it's less populated farm land, the roads are all named. I think they must use satellite photo mapping, and then get a street name somewhere else.
I had the previous two issues of the same program, and 2002 is the third. I keep hoping that they will catch up with little places like this, but no joy so far. I do know that I can find my town and street on MapQuest, but it sucks as a comparative use program I think.
I had Delorme about 10 years back, and thought it was good, until this came out and allowed more flexibility with planning as I recall.
Hope this helps. Take care.
Brian Lawson, 337 Walnut Street East Bothwell, Ontario.
(519) 695-2799
ps...So stop by next time you do head out for Toronto. We're less than 15 minutes north of the 401, about 1/3 of the way between Chatham and London. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I understand the basic mapping behind DeLorme, MSS&T, etc.is tied to the US "Tiger" mapping system - in the US, that is. Maybe Canada is about the same. I don't think Mapquest reflects anything other than recent local information. Geographical coordinates do not appear on Mapquest. I am told that the basic Tiger system has not been updated in 10 years. Perhaps someone else has better information than this.
Bob Swinney

I use MS Streets and trips with my Garmin Summit. Works just fine. A few roads are misnamed due to municipalities renaming in the last 2 years, but it is ast least as good as a 2 year old road map. Southern Ontario is well covered. Northern Ontario is also pretty good. I've used it in Manitoba as well - and coverage is more than acceptable.

Thanks, Brian and "Clare" (I've never seen a sig), I'll check it out. Brian, thanks for the invite. I hope to take you up on it sometime.
Bob, about all the Tiger data being 10 years old, I thought that was the basis of Delorme's Street Atlas as well, but each version is updated with a lot of new streets in new subdivisions. I have no idea how they get the new data. They also include millions of "points of interest", all sorts of commercial establishments (very handy) which probably comes from some other data source.
Pete Keillor

Pete sez:
"Bob, about all the Tiger data being 10 years old, I thought that was the basis of Delorme's Street Atlas as well, but each version is updated with a lot of new streets in new subdivisions. I have no idea how they get the new data. They also include millions of "points of interest", all sorts of commercial establishments (very handy) which probably comes from some other data source."
Yeah. That is what I'm confused about - is the new (most current) data added by mapping agencies as overlays onto the "Tiger" system maps?? Hopefully someone can clear this up. One reason I suspect this is with "Street Atlas USA" (DeLorme) for example: I can plot an old established point on a map with my GPS and it will agree exactly with the coordinates shown. Then when plotting a newer feature, say a street address that has been added recently, there is less agreement between my GPS captured waypoint and the coordinates from the map. Thus, I am led to believe that recent additions may well have been more from "artwork" than aerial surveying.
Bob Swinney
Bob Swinney

The Washington Post had an interesing article in the July 10th 2003 edition "In Parts Unknown Real People Hit the Road to Make Online Maps Better."
MapQuest has teams of two (a driver and a spotter) that drive new roads with GPS logging gear.
The Washington Post only has free access for two weeks, but I found the article still available at If you are interested in reading it, I wouldn't delay.
Jack

Thanks, Jack. I should have know they were doing it with GPS.
Bob Swinney

DeLorme accepts input from the public at large to "Suggest/Correct data related issues in our products" using this form:
I suppose some type of business interests input all the data for the POI's that can be shown on the map. I have found those to be generally accurate and helpful but sort of dated sometimes.

Thanks also, Jack. Take a look at the link Jack Smith provided. It suggests that most revison is done with GPSs drive-plotting the newer areas. I still wonder why Mapquest has no geographical coordinates with their material. Maybe they figure the many map grid systems in use today would make them look inaccurate if they published coordinates.
Bob Swinney
> > > >Bob, about all the Tiger data being 10 years old, I thought that was > >the basis of Delorme's Street Atlas as well, but each version is > >updated with a lot of new streets in new subdivisions. I have no idea > >how they get the new data. They also include millions of "points of > >interest", all sorts of commercial establishments (very handy) which > >probably comes from some other data source. > > DeLorme accepts input from the public at large to "Suggest/Correct > data related issues in our products" using this form: > > > I suppose some type of business interests input all the data for the > POI's that can be shown on the map. I have found those to be > generally accurate and helpful but sort of dated sometimes. > > > >

I've found Street Atlas 2003 to have some improvements and some really bad errors. In Florida, the bridge over to Pine Island near Fort Myers was missing completely. MapSource, a product from Garmin, an older product had it. As someone who is "positionally challanged", I depend on maps and GPS a lot when I travel.
Earle Rich Mont Vernon, NH

Jack sez:
Maybe so for DeLorme. I wonder though how the street level mapping available in the new car navagation systems gets its coordinates. This may mean that the mapping services, do in fact, plot
> > > >Thanks also, Jack. Take a look at the link Jack Smith provided. It > >suggests that most revison is done with GPSs drive-plotting the newer areas. > >I still wonder why Mapquest has no geographical coordinates with their > >material. Maybe they figure the many map grid systems in use today would > >make them look inaccurate if they published coordinates. > > > >Bob Swinney > > > > > >

Positionally challenged. I like that. I thought my problem was a need to take defensive countermeasures against an out of control navigation module (SWMBO). But maybe we have the same disease. :>)
Do you like the "look and feel" of SA 2003 compared to the one used in the earlier SA 9, 8, 7 and so on? That newer thing with all the tabs at the bottom and the bar on the right made me crazy in trying to use the program and also in trying to keep track of where my files were located.
That happened a couple of years ago I bought Topo USA 4.0 to upgrade from SA 8. I returned it and upgraded to SA 9 instead. They had abandoned the more or less standard Windows Common User Access (CUA) look and feel and I had a hell of a time with it. Another problem for me was that the metaphorical symbols or whatever the hell it is used for storing data like routes and waypoints and stuff was not easily related to drives, folder, and subfolder locations.
Of all the things that is wrong with Windows, the basic look and feel and the CUA shared by many apps is one of the good things about it.
I also found some problems in using Topo USA while driving. I can't stand the thought of using a laptop's built in digitizer while driving (safety issues and uncontrollable movements) so I (and the navigator who works for me) have memorized a lot of hot keys and get along fine with those. But those were not working for me with Topo USA 4.0 so back it went.
Maybe I ought to give one of the newer versions another try, it may have been simply too steep a learning curve for me at that time.

I didn't like it at first, but now find it more useful and easier to use than older products. It's easy enough to minimize all that info by dragging the box down when I just want to look at the maps. I think mapping software just keeps getting better all the time. Delorme's problem was shifting over to a completely new database and not incorporating all the changes and corrections people have sent in over the years. I'll probably stop in at their store the next time I go to Maine. Bertha. their huge rotating globe is pretty impressive to see.
Earle Rich Mont Vernon, NH