OT-Masses of unemployed

"You could say, as many do, that shipping jobs overseas is no big deal because the high-value work -- and much of the profits -- remain in the U.S. That may well be so. But what kind of a society are we going to have if it consists of highly paid people doing high-value-added work -- and masses of unemployed?

Consider this passage by Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder: "The TV manufacturing industry really started here, and at one point employed many workers. But as TV sets became 'just a commodity,' their production moved offshore to locations with much lower wages. And nowadays the number of television sets manufactured in the U.S. is zero. A failure? No, a success."

I disagree. Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today's "commodity" manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow's emerging industry.

The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other wars -- fight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptability -- and stability -- we may have taken for granted."

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Seems some people are begining to think that steering america towards a service based eccomony may be the biggest blunder in the last 30 years. The theory has not lived up to reality, in fact we are now feeling the effects. Trickle down theory has left most americans living under wall streets dinner table getting pissed on by wall street bankers as thier jobs are be sent off shore, grobbling for the crumbs that fall off the bailout table.

Best Regards Tom.

Reply to
azotic
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How about something even more basic: Make it so that I can hire just one employee. Right now if I hire one to do work, I have to hire another one to check all the rules, cover my ass, fill out forms, withhold wages, etc., etc., etc.

So I'm just not going to hire the one, unless I get a clear and present opportunity to hire two or three at once. Even then I'll hesitate. Think about that.

Granted, I could do what most small business owners do, and just try to muddle through without reading that stack of regulations that's bigger than my living room. But I'd much rather be a single contributor, limiting my business to what I can do personally, than to ever hassle with all the crap I'd have to go through to hire

just

one

person.

Reply to
Tim Wescott

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Sounds like the one person you need to hire would be - a lawyer! Who, unfortunately, would not do any productive work...

Reply to
cavelamb

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But who would in turn need assistants to handle the regulatory forms.

Reply to
RBnDFW

Boy do we understand. We produce a magazine that generates more than $18,000 into the local economy. Also the USPS gets about $3600 from us. Well the #%@^ USPS has been our biggest problem in producing and delivering the magazine. We just spent a couple of hours going over botched deliveries. Now the USPS has just handed us a pile of forms to fill out and even gave us a deadline. They already have all of this information and all that would be needed is a simple statement of "No Changes". No they want this big pile of forms filled out again. Well we will go all electronic and tell the USPS to go play with themselves. We didn't want to do this as a bunch of our subscribers like the full color printed "Coffee Table" quality magazine. But our bureaucracy bucket just overflowed. Minor impact to the employment picture here but the $18,000 might just be the buck that broke some small business out.

Stu

Reply to
Stu Fields

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>>

Which is my point -- if I want to hire just one person for productive work _and_ stay within the confines of all due regulations I can't. Or at least I can't without either taking a huge hit to my own productivity, contracting the HR work out (it can be done, but there's still a productivity hit), or blithely ignoring a bunch of regulations that may or may not bite me down the road.

All the rules are written with the assumption that employers are self-centered, evil, and have infinitely deep pockets. That describes large corporations pretty well, but when you get down to small businesses the "deep pockets" definition goes right out the window, and "self-centered" and "evil" only apply to a nasty few, not the majority.

There's got to be a way to find some middle ground so that I don't have toxic waste from some neighbor flowing across my land, yet I still have a way to spread my wealth to happy employees without turning into an unpaid cop* and bureaucrat for every government entity whose territory I happen to be in.

  • And Gunner, before you start cackling with glee -- if I hire someone then _I_ have to make sure that they're not an illegal immigrant; _I_ have to get all their documentation and keep it on file -- even if they're one of the two boys whose births I was present at, or one of my nieces or nephews who I've watched grow up. Furthermore, if I want to sell to the government, or to a government supplier, _I_ have to be the asshole that sends my employees off to drug testing and then fires them if they don't pass. So it's not just "those damn liberals" that put this burden on me.
Reply to
Tim Wescott

So are you saying the government that found a right to privacy covering abortion, requires blood lead level tests to be sent to the state in my state, doesn't think my body and its fluids are covered by that same right to privacy?

I *thought* OSHA regs cut in a something like >= 7 employees. Of course all the other crap I have no idea at all. What is your workmans comp rate for one employee? Then you have to pay futa and suta. I worked for a company that had to provide this info on 9 track tape because we had too many employees. We had internet, we had 4MM dat, CDROM and

8 mm Dat at the time. Can't upload by modem or website, gotta burn a 1600 BPI tape. So I had a very lightly used tape drive with a dedicated pc that I cut tapes every quarter on. So Tim, are you becoming a smaller government advocate?

I've said this before, we had the Pentagon ready to occupy in 11 months and finished in 17 months during a war. We couldn't do it now. Too may lawsuits, enviromental impact statements, union hold ups, regulatory battles.

Wes

Reply to
Wes

abortion, requires

body and its

I scratched the surface of this enough to know how many forms I had to fill out, and I stopped thinking about expanding.

dat, CDROM and

tape. So I

quarter on.

No, I'm not becoming one -- I never stopped being one.

I'm just not a "give the country to the corporations" advocate, like Bush, Cheney & Palin. Nor am I a "give the country to the unions" advocate like the Democrats.

finished in 17

Yup.

Reply to
Tim Wescott

abortion, requires

body and its

That is so sad. Somewhere there is someone that likely would like working for you.

dat, CDROM and

BPI tape. So I

quarter on.

I wasn't one until I saw how bad it has gone.

That is an excellent balance. I tend to vote right but I value fights from the left when those are on values I have.

Outside of the military, I've always worked for corporations. They seem to have enough scale to provide decent benefits as far as health and pension. I'd hate to work at a gas station or grocery store. Those employers keep people at under 35 hours a week and depend on people that are getting earned income and WIC support. Corporate welfare isn't as pervasive as some areas of the service sector. We have a cleaning crew where I work, only the owners are full time with benefits. We hired one of the cleaners to work production. It will be a step up the economic ladder for that lady.

finished in 17

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Reply to
Wes

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Oh of course not. Which is why I work by myself and when I do need a hand..I pay em cash at the end of the day and struggle until I get paid.

So I generally work by myself. Im building a machine shop at the moment. Electrical, pneumatics, installing machinery etc etc. I sure could use a hand. But I cant afford to hire one. Anyone Id hire..would be making more money than me.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Temp agencies may be the wave of the future.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Train your dogs as helpers? They are likely to be much better workers.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

They already are...

Reply to
cavelamb

I took Sandy with me today. I dropped a screw driver and started down the ladder..and she was holding it in her teeth, with her front paws two steps up.

I think I like this dog

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch

Reply to
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:34:18 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote the following:

Pretty cool, and works for low pay, too.

I was shocked to see something in the local Grange Co-Op ad yesterday. Freakin' yuppie bullshit: Frosty Paws frozen dog treats, 2/$7. So, do you buy these for Sandy, or dress her in coats and shoes, raincoats when it's raining, etc.? Ah dinna thin so. ;)

-- It's also helpful to realize that this very body that we have, that's sitting right here right now, with its aches and its pleasures, is exactly what we need to be fully human, fully awake, fully alive. -- Pema Chodron

Reply to
Larry Jaques

If she was a temp worker, she would have got the screw driver after her coffee break, and only if you signed her time card.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

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