Starrett and Global Series

But I think that it's a sign that US business is being

I don't see what the US government has to do with it. Starrett is responding to market forces, and has probably been a industry holdout on relabeling cheap imports with their name. A large portion of the market will buy a $10 mike from harbor freight instead of a $100 Starrett. So if Starrett wants to cater as many customers as possible, they are selling the cheapies and the high end.

I'm afraid there is a lack of a common view, here. I fully agree that the cheaper imports are cutting into Starrett's bottom line. Further, providing entry level products is not unknown to US manufacturers. My question - how much is it a function of "market forces", regulation, resource costs (labor, tooling, raw material, overhead), and the desire of Starrett (and other manufacturers) to make a profit, that "Global Series" is offered?

It's like Kabuki theater, where pr> But I think that it's a sign that US business is being

I don't see your problem. Starrett is clearly indicating that the Global line of products are not USA made. I am fairly confident that Starrett does not want to devalue their reputation on US made tools which is something that they have worked hard and long to achieve.

They figure that a lot of HSM types or guys starting out are likely to trust an offshore product that Starrett has a connection with.

They are just trying to grab some sales that they are currently loosing out on.

Wes

I have no doubt that the Chinese are capable of making high quality products, especially under Starrett supervision and with CNC equipment.

The poor quality chinese tools are uslally this way because they are spec'ed this way by the purchaser.

It must be noted, however, that the Chinese like to cheat at every opportunity, hence the need for supervision.

Environmental regulation.

Corporate income tax.

Capital gains tax.

Occupational safety and health regulations.

And an ocean of other bureaucratic impediments, all of which drive up the cost of doing business, and nearly all of which are much reduced or absent altogether in third-world countries.

Looking at the HF dig calipers it's abundantly clear that the Chinese are capable of producing quality products without supervision of a US company. Those calipers are really quite good for general use, with their only real fault being relatively short battery life. They are quite acceptable for nearly any HSM use, at 1/10 the cost of the big guys products.

Typically.

That does seem to be the case with many of the Chinese companies doesn't it?

Pete, I never owned such calipers, mine are Mitutoyo and they surprised me again and again with their accuracy.

Could you tell me how did you verify their accurateness?

Let's say, did you measure a large gage block, moved the caliper back to zero and re-measure the same block?

Without a doubt, cost is part of the equation.

I don't have a gauge block set yet, I don't really need that level of precision. That said, I compared them against some Swiss made dial calipers measuring various items and they matched well. I also have the HF 0-3" micrometer set which is also pretty decent. The micrometer set comes with 1" and 2" standards and I measured these with the HF calipers and came up with 1.0000 and 2.0000 which points to pretty decent accuracy and repeatability, certainly adequate for HSM use.

Cost and needs, and for most HMS use you don't need NIST traceable super precision stuff. The big guys calipers are quite nice, but overkill. That Ferrari might be nice, but will it perform any better than the Chevrolet for grocery runs?

That seems to be an excellent test.

Yes. Just today, at a parking lot, my truck door gently touched a new BMW (really gently), the owner of which had quite a fit. Why buy a car if regular wear and tear could make the owner so hysterical.

It's worth it, IMO, to buy two gage blocks in the range of your most important gaging instrument, to check them from time to time. I don't have statistical data or anything to prove the efficacy of this, but I've always found it to be a worthwhile investment. I'm a hobby machinist too (when I have time), and it's everything I need.

For my 1" mikes I have 0.5" and 1.0" gage blocks. I have a similar pair for my metrics, and I use the inch gage blocks to cross-check the metrics with a "betweens" kind of test, and vice versa.

It ain't a formal certification but it keeps your gages honest enough for ordinary work. If I used Chinese gages, I'd definitely get a pair of the blocks to go with them.

-- Ed Huntress

Unfortunately some rather pathetic insecure souls entire self image and ego are dependent on meaningless items like their yuppmobiles. I once saw a truly pathetic sight of a guy curled up in his freshly flattened BMW crying. Even more pathetic since the cause of said flattening was his arrogant charging out of a driveway without checking for traffic.

Very unfortunate. By the way, charging out of driveway is highly dangerous -- I was once hit by a car that charged out of a driveway, it knocked me off a bicycle when I was riding on a sidewalk.

Considering the reading I got when measuring the 1" and 2" standards that came with the HF micrometer set with the HF dig calipers that were purchased at least a year prior, I think that points to reasonable accuracy from both the calipers and the standards. At some point when they're on sale I'll get the 81 piece B grade gauge block set from Enco or similar.

Yeah, "standards," gage blocks, whatever. As long as they're right on.

I have to admit I didn't buy the ones I'm using now, although I bought my originals from Starrett. When I was writing and doing photography for Mitutoyo, they sent me a bunch of their then-new ceramic gage blocks for photos, and said they didn't want them back because they had already written them off as an expense. These are AA, I think. d8-)

-- Ed Huntress

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:55:57 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Ignoramus19284 quickly quoth:

Hell YES! Grocery trips are faster and much more fun in the Ferrari.

Do what I do and buy door edge guard/cushions. They protect your own paint as well as the other guy's when you accidentally bump. As to being sensitive to a Beemer owner: don't. They're not worth it. Beemers are the only "sports car" I've ever seen upside down next to the freeway on a gentle grade and gentle curve. TWICE! Hell, with all the screaming over the Ford Explorer you'd think we'd see those upside down all the time. Newp, just 2 BMW 7-series. Whatta hoot!

I had a funny story with a "beemer" once.

We have a road that climbs up a hill next to my home (1 mile).

Once it showed heavily. I was in a 4x4 truck, so I could go uphill.

I saw a little beemer, RWD, struggling and unable of going uphill. So I stopped by and offered the grateful owner help in pulling him up the hill with my pickup.

When we started looking where to hook up, we realized that the cut plastic bumper did not leave us any opportunity to hook him up. So I had to leave and he had to wait for a BMW service truck or something.

You only pay capital gains tax when you sell an asset that has been depreciated. I don't see how that applies to any manufacturer unless they are selling their factory or property. You pay Corporate income tax on profits the corporation makes, where the profit is from a manufacturer or imported-distributor. I don't see environmetal regs significantly affecting a company like Starrett, other than the cost to properly dispose of solvents and waste oils.

Starrett does have to pay much higher wages and benefits for very skilled labor, but that is a difference of living standards between the west and China. Is that the government's fault?

According to Ed Huntress :

There is something to be said for having standards which will be measured at 1/3 and 2/3 rotations of the micrometer thimble (.008" and .016" are close enough), as well as those which will have the thimble at zero. This will show up a case where the anvil and spindle are lapped at an angle and will read properly as long as the rotation of the spindle is in full turns, but will introduce a bit of error at other rotations. This is not too likely in most cases, but for testing a new cheap micrometer, it is a good idea. Even better for this is a set of quartz optical flats of these thicknesses and the proper illumination which will show this up even at very tiny angles. Probably meaningless for most hobby work, but if you really care, another thing to check.

Enjoy, DoN.

That's the value of the metric gage blocks with the inch mike, and vice versa. And you get some interesting stacks by combining the inch and metric blocks, too.

Uh, yeah. I would like to have a set of optical flats and an illuminator for them, too. Then again, I'd like to have complete sets of inch and metric gage blocks, and a master set I send to NIST every couple of years.

-- Ed Huntress