Protocol on a mid-air?

At the field today a guy flying a Quickie 500 plane (at what, 100+ mph?)
plowed into a Funtana, pretty much destroying both planes. What's the
normal protocol on something like that - does the Quickie pilot pay for the
other guy's plane, or is it just an accepted risk of flying?
Normally we don't have Quickies flying at our field (this is the first time
in many years I've seen one flying other than in an organized race), but
today we had 4 other planes in the pattern and then a Quickie takes off to
do its zooming-through-the-pattern thing. A mid-air probably could have
been predicted.
Jim
Reply to
Joe Bill
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I have yet to see a club that would fault a flyer for a non-intentional mid-air..
Stchuff happens.....
Bill
Reply to
Bill Fulmer
Hello,
Are you all club members, and do you have any rules in this regard, or was this a "free-for-all" situation? Generally, a midair collision is accepted to be one of the risks of flying unless a rule has been broken (too many planes in the air, erractic pattern being flown, etc.).
At our club, if someone is determined to be "at fault", he/she must replace the other persons airplane.
Good luck!
John
Joe Bill wrote:
Reply to
John Morley
Unless one pilot does something REALLY dumb, a mid-air is considered a risk of flying. That being said, usually the faster, more maneuverable planes have the obligation to yeild airspace to a slower, less maneuverable plane, just like a power boat yeilds to a sailboat.
If the Quickie was out of the pattern, he was certainly at fault. If he launched with 4 other planes in the air (not Quickie-types) he was dumb - go back to sentence one of this post. When I fly my 1/4 Fokker Dr.1, I won't fly with small, quick planes. The sheer size, speed, and maneuverability difference is a good recipe for a mid-air. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Reply to
Dr1Driver
As soon as the second bird went airborne the mid-air became possible. It is BIG step top go from possible to PREDICTABLE. Even in combat the mid-airs are at best only highly possible; the IF, where, when and involving whom are all up for chance. Even indoor park fliers going
Reply to
Dennis Adamisin
For what it's worth, the Funtana was just flying the pattern, making a turn to come in down a line over the runway - it wasn't a hovering, static target.
Yes, mid-airs are always possible, but it seems like the probability goes up quite a bit when you've got a Q500 screaming through the pattern 5-6 times more often than your average plane can based on its extreme speed. And based on this extreme speed, I doubt the pilot of the Q500 can do much in the way of watching out for other planes, so it becomes a case of it being everyone else's responsibility to get out of his way, as if they'd even have a chance to see him coming (this is the part I'm having a hard time swallowing).
Your average plane at our field flies at speeds where it's not too difficult to visually watch out for other planes and maneuver if necessary to put distance between them. This may be why this is the first mid-air I've seen.
I wonder what the owner of a $1700 Hangar 9 Ultimate 10-300 with a $1500 engine in it would think if he'd been on the receiving end of this collision...
If I were king I'd say that if your aircraft is so fast that you can't do a reasonable job of attempting to avoid mid-airs, then you should only be allowed to take to the air when nobody else is flying. If your aircraft is in the air first and someone takes off to fly too, then they do so at their own risk.
But, since I'm not king I guess if I'm in the air when something like that takes to the sky, I'll bring mine in for my own protection.
It's been interesting reading people's opinions. Thanks for showing me how naive I am.
Jim
Reply to
Joe Bill
where do you fly? I need to know, since I don't want to go there, what with all those folks looking for somebody different from themselves to blame... Get a life-- mid-airs happen. If you don't want guys flying fast, insist on speed limiters and/or ban them. The best defense against mid-airs is the one I use--when I feel uncomfortable with a particular airplane in the air, I land and watch for a while.. Roger
Joe Bill wrote:
Reply to
Roger
Weighing in for no apparent reason...I agree with the post above. Mid-airs happen. It doesn't really atter what speed you are flying, you watch your plane. Only when a another plane gets into your visual field do you see it. Others, not committed to comanding a palne may watch two or three things in a kind of scanning rotation. How often have you been at your field or a contest when someone 'goes in' and you find yourself asking "what happened?" because you were looking somewhere else?
One of the clubs i fly at just passed a 'spotter rule' to try and avoid midairs and to be able to alert the pilot if an emergency arises. Also helps for calling landings and checking to see if the runnway is clear.
FWIW, the planes at that field regularly include trainers, biplanes, all sorts of sport planes, true maser project big birds and turbines. So, we have a very wide speed envelope.
Everybody needs to pick up the rekitted parts and look at it as an opportunity to move on and get to that next plane that has been so enticing...:)
Andy
We can make a box of wood.....FLY!!
Reply to
RCPILOT48
Hi Joe, Just out of curiosity, did the 2 pilots involved reach some sort of agreement about blame afterwards?
I'm with you on the 'landing for your own protection' approach. There are a couple of guys who I don't feel comfortable flying with, so when they take off, I land. Much simpler than all the finger pointing etc after a crash!
MrBonk (at work)
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come-on.....
Reply to
Rural QLD Call
Did anyone happen to catch the mid air crash on film, that would be awesome to check out....If so, post it to alt.binaries.radio-control
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RCPILOT48) wrote:
Reply to
jeffm
Your comment about "all those folks" is misplaced -- everyone who responded to my post seems to have the same opinion (except me) that mid-airs happen, as did the one person at the field I talked to. I'm guessing since the community response seems to be "mid-airs happen", I expect most people at our field would feel the same way.
I think you could have made you point without your first paragraph, or the get-a-life comment. I wasn't trying to tell anyone they were wrong, I was just asking a question and ventured to put my opinion out in as neutral a manner as I could and was looking for some comment, expecting it also to be neutral. I guess it's now two lessons learned today.
Jim
Reply to
Joe Bill
Mate, this sort of behaviour is rife on Usenet. People who probably wouldn't say 'boo' to you if they were face to face with you turn into veritable keyboard warriors in here! Consign them to the killfile and they'll never bother you again :-)
MrBonk (at work)
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Reply to
Rural QLD Call
Protocol? How can you expect 2 planes to occupy the same space at the same time? Isn't that against all the rules of physics?
Reply to
Six_O'Clock_High
Joe,
Another way to read this "mid-airs happen" idea is another way of simply saying: "Not my fault!". In other words, it seems everyone wants to duck the possibility that they may someday be RESPONSIBLE for the loss of someone else's model. Because then they might be expected to do the right thing and replace it! Sad comment on the state of maturity at club fields.
However, to a point I have to agree with the concept that mid-airs happen. But only to a point. In this case I would say, based on what I know about it that the Q-500 pilot demonstrated poor judgment. The planes being overtaken have the right of way and it's the job of the pilot doing the overtaking to avoid them. This isn't written in law anywhere. It's simply the way gentlemen and men of values and ethics would behave and it is borne out of respect for each other.
My suggestion is to lobby a complaint to the club officers each and every time this Q-500 pilot or any other pilot behaves in a similar manner. Try to get others to do the same. Make it known that you think the Q-500 was in the wrong and should replace the other plane. Depending on the mood of the club, you may end up having to find a new club to fly with. But you might be better off doing just that.
Good luck Chuck
Reply to
C.O.Jones
I agree, Chuck. Sometimes s**t happens, and sometimes it's encouraged to happen. The minute the Quickie pilot took off into crowded airspace, with a plane vastly different than the ones flying, the POSSIBILITY of a mid-air changed to a PROBABILITY of one. I'm not saying you must allow only planes of the same type to fly together, but there is a legal phrase called "reasonable care" that can be applied.
Yes they do; as do slower, and less maneuverable planes.
Chuck, sadly, this is a nation of "not my fault'ers". No one wants to admit or assume responsilbility for their own actions. That's why the courts are filled with lawsuits today. You have to force someone to face up to the consequences of their actions.
It's a sad comment on maturity everywhere. No one wants to do the right thing. "My fault" is a dirty word now-a-days. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"
Reply to
Dr1Driver
I have never seen a situation where ANYONE has been deemed responsible for paying for another's aircraft, even when the fault obviously lies with that person. I commonly see situations where someone OFFERS'S to pay for damage to another, but even then, that offer is always turned down by the other person. In this hobby, we seem to have adopted a "no fault" policy with regard to pretty much every situation other than intentional damage. I mean, hey, it's a hobby with hazards... if you accept the hobby, you accept the hazards.
MJC
Reply to
MJC
Welcome to rec.models.air :-)
MJC
Reply to
MJC
Several years ago at one of our fly-ins, we had a similar incident. A gent flying a 1/4 scale Cub decided to do a loop, and was about 1/4 of the way into it, when a .25-sized Quickie-type went right through the middle of it. Both models were totaled in the mid-air. The two pilots involved shrugged, said "s**t happens", brought out another plane and kept flying.
-- Morris Lee snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net
Reply to
Morris Lee
Call it even. When you crank up an RC model, you should accept the risk that go with the hobby. An occasional mid-air will happen in spite of the best efforts of everyone.
We are becoming a nation of fault finders and litigators. We all need to do our part to stop the madness.
Bob
Reply to
Bob Adkins
There were only two of us at the field. I was flying basic pattern maneuvers with my 4*60 and the other guy was flying an ultra stick 40. He was all over the place with no regard to pattern. I let him fly first thinking we could alternate turns flying. However, every time I started my engine he would start his and fly too. On the last flight, I let him fly twice before I tried to fly. Sure enough, as soon as I started my engine he went up too. I almost asked him to please wait until I was finished before he flew again. I was flying the pattern, when all of a sudden there was a sickening smash and my 4* came down in a slow spiral. He had flown up through my right wing. My plane and os91 4-stroke were totalled. All he had to say was "I can't believe that happened". He then said "What are the chances of that happening?" I said about 100 percent. What can you do??
John VB
Reply to
jjvb

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