Protocol on a mid-air?

That guy got what he deserved. Like I said, we all know right from wrong.

You are absolutely correct. However, there are some who will not adhere to those values. That's when we need the written rules. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

This is not a comment on the current topic, but a question about the idea of a "traffic pattern". Our club does not have one, and I am trying to figure out how one would work. Surely, you don't fly a "racetrack" and nothing else. How does one practice for a pattern event? In the AMA sportsman pattern event, several of the maneuvers are to be flown in opposite directions, ideally at the same distance from the pilot. Fun-fly craft are often flown within a much smaller area than a fast, heavy war bird. If followed to its conclusion, you end up with only one plane in the air at a time or a lot of boring flying.

Of course, the wind usually dictates the takeoff and landing directions, and safety dictates that the first turn on takeoff is away from the spectators (specifically, away from the "0" line). We also require that low flight not take place directly over the runway (there is ample room on the far side for that). Other than that, I cannot visualize why anyone would stay in the hobby flying in a traffic pattern.

Do people really do this? Is it fun?

Just so you'll know - I have had 2 midairs. I have also hit a couple of trees and buried a couple of planes, all pilot error (including not raising the antenna).

-- Mike Nort> |

Good questions, Mike. A "pattern" isn't written in stone. However, it helps if you know you won't meet a plane head on when landing, taking off, or flying along in a straight line. A loose racetrack is followed, and everyone should be aware where all planes are at all times. That's one good reason for spotters. Take off is into the wind, th efirst turn is away fro mthe flightline, adn there's a downwind leg which is usually done off teh far edge of the runway. Aerobatics are discouraged right over the runway, unless the planes in the air are all the same types (3D). Calls should be made if you're seriously going against the general flow. Like a spin, barrel roll, split S or Immelman. In a spin, you come down through traffic. In the last two three maneuvers, you reverse direction in the same line you were travelling, but at a different altitude. In a true barrel roll, you change couse 90 degrees from your original heading, while also changing altitude. In 3D maneuvers, everyone is all over the place. If all planes are the same type, then it's every man for himself. However, usually you have several different typs in the air at once. A simple "traffic pattern" is a great way to help prevent mid-airs.

If you're serious about Pattern, your practice will be while no one else is flying, so you can concentrate on the maneuvers.

In 25 years, I've had one midair when my airspace was invaded at a fly-in. I have planted many while practicing for unlimited class fun fly, and a couple early in the learning curve. I've lost one to a defective switch, and one to a defective aileron servo. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

No! I disagree! That's when we kick them in the ass! Literally! Nothing like a good spanking to make the children realize they were wrong and you are serious.

Chuck

I like the way you think. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

And with all that is going on, there are, thankfully rare, incidences of mid-air collisions. This all started with someone saying that blame should be placed and someone should pay, further enhanced with the threat of revenge. I watched a group of pilots at another club (Not AMA sanctioned) who mainly flew giant scale warbirds. At the end of the day, they brought a bunch of quickie 500's for a little, what we thought would be, pylon racing. Turns out that the main goal was seeing who could hit each other, kind of like full contact combat. Watched them do this twice. Nobody ever actually made contact.( I was told that they have had some spectacular mid-airs) Mid air collisions are 100% chance. I stand by my original statement. Assessing blame and trying to make someone pay is ludicrous.

Not much chance of that happening. We would have made you a "former member" from our club a long time ago. .

Not much chance of that. I wouldn't have wanted to join your piss-ant club with your whiny, wussy "not my fault" members. Where I come from, we honor our debts, pay for what we break, and take care of our own and ourselves. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

Bullshit. Very few things are PURE "accident".

If you're going to refer to my post, please do so with an exact quote, coward. I never offered "revenge", I simply stated if someome mid-aired me by their carelessness or negligence, they would pay the bill.

You're an idiot and a coward, I'm done with you. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

| I watched a group of pilots at another club (Not AMA sanctioned) who mainly | flew giant scale warbirds. At the end of the day, they brought a bunch of | quickie 500's for a little, what we thought would be, pylon racing. Turns | out that the main goal was seeing who could hit each other, kind of like | full contact combat. Watched them do this twice. Nobody ever actually made | contact.( I was told that they have had some spectacular mid-airs)

Odd. At the local slope, we quite often intentionally try to collide with each other. Since we're usually flying foam flying wings, it almost never does any damage. And while we don't succeed *that* often, there's usually several collisions per hour, often dozens of them per hour if we've got like lots of planes in the air. Most are very minor touches (since we're usually going in the same directions because that's where the lift is) but a few are full head on collisions. (Even then, most of the time you don't even have to stop flying unless you were too low.)

| Mid air collisions are 100% chance. I stand by my original statement.

I disagree ...

There's a large element of chance involved, yes, but you certain can make them happen if you want, and you can avoid them if you want too.

| Assessing blame and trying to make someone pay is ludicrous.

... on the other hand, if somebody takes up something crunchy (i.e. not foam, fragile), we avoid them, and I've yet to see a mid-air involving a crunchy plane at the local slope (even with eight or so planes in the air.)

I used to be in a club like that. Arguments (and more than a couple fist fights!) over really stupid things; like who shot who down etc. and once resulting in a member literally stomping another members aircraft out of spite and another time having a member pull a weapon (tire iron) on another member. That one ended up in a call to the cops. The funny thing, all the "crap" was caused by the same 5 guys. Finally, we (as a club) started actually enforcing the behaviour rules that already were in our rule book and we ended up throwing (voting) out 5 people over a period of a year. Currently, we are a 110 member group of "friends", and yes, we still have an occasional mid-air but who cares? It's just a hobby. There were times in the past when I didn't go to the field because I knew who would be there; that's fun? Now we're just a "piss-ant club with our whiny, wussy, "not my fault" members". I really like that. I'm glad that I'm not from where you're from. I couldn't afford the cost of ammunition it would take to defend myself.

MJC

"Dr1Driver" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m06.aol.com...

Once again, you don't bother reading the post. No mention of a quote anywhere, just unwarranted name calling on your part. You have removed all doubt as to who the "Idiot and Coward" really is. (Hint: It's not me!)

What I should have said is they are pretty rare if both are making a concious effort to avoid them.

I have far to much time and money into aircraft that many with the same mindset call "toys". Defense guys. Defense. rick markel

When I flew pattern, , if anyone else was in the air, I just just flew "out there" for practice. If I was the only one up, I flew like I was at a pattern contest. Nobody minded, and I moved out if I heard or saw anyone else take to the air.