Protocol on a mid-air?

I've been involved in two, both of which I thought were avoidable, however the simplest thing is to just to walk away from it and put it in the past. One of them anyway still yields a laugh - especially from the culprit who was "at fault". Well it's more than a laugh. He pretty much doubles up when he relates it and it has to do with my reaction rather than the crash itself- especially when it is relived on video. I'm grinning now so I guess it wasn't so bad. We were flying from the water. I waited downwind for him to make his takeoff run but he aborted and turned around. Suddenly he accelerated to make a downwind takeoff and smashed into my idling plane at full clip. With a stunned blankness I apparently repeated twice in falsetto, "What did you do that for?" He found that hilarious and immediately cracked up. Oh, well. I forgive.

The other was a case where one plane was flying opposite to the pattern - you might say as well. It lacks the same humour though. My plane was converted to confetti. There was no overt rule about maintaining the pattern but perhaps the incident augers for one. We walked away; one with a plane, one without.

John Hawkins - From Canada's Atlantic Coast

The IMAA REQUIRES spotters at their sanctioned events. In a crowded club airfield, I have often used a spotter. Possibly that's what should have been done in this case. Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

I was involved in a mid air just after I learned to fly. I thought I had come very close to another plane. It happened very fast, but since my plane was flying fine, I didn't think I had hit him. The club's head instructor came out and asked me if I was going to land and check out my plane, because I in fact hit the other plane and he had crashed. I landed and couldn't find any damage to my plane. The other guys plane had about six inches taken off the end of his wing. (I later discovered a 1" cut in one of my tires) He sniveled and whined so much that I repaired the damage to his wing. That was the first indication, and later proven in spades that we were in the presence of a real Pain In The ASS. Bill, (From Mad Cow country.)

I don't buy the "probability" thing at all. Several times in the last couple of decades, several of us set out to prove just how hard it is to midair INTENTIONALLY. After many times trying, we were never successful when the planes were farther away than a few dozen feet. Even in RC Combat where 4-6 planes fly in a confined space going every shich way, midairs are still fairly rare.

Stuff happens. Stuff can be made more likely to happen!

If the Q500 jock was just ripping around the sky and generally keeping out of the slower planes, then chalk it up to chance. If he was ripping around AMONGST the other planes, then give him hell and get on with your lives.

Unless there are rules regarding large disparities of speed or maneuvers, it will be hard to go to someone and ask them to pay up. After all. how many of the Funtana pilots announce their vertical maneuvers? Pulling up suddenly in the pattern is just as bad as flying fast in the pattern.

I belonged to a club that had a good way of protecting againse shoot-downs. If you turned on your transmitter without a pin and someone crashes, you are automatically responsible for that plane. Didn't matter what channel each was on! Cut down a LOT on the "I'm just gonna check my throttle servo" type stuff.

And, that's the way it has to be unless yo have an air traffic controller.

The real truth of the matter is that the entire club is at fault. Past history/experience says there really should be no more than three planes in the air at any given time. Any more than three in the air is asking for a mid air. There is just so much practical air space to fly in. Then again, I had a mid air with only one other guy in the air and this guy flew his trainer right through the tail of my very expensive custom built plane.

Hey Joe Bill, it was too bad you lost your funtana, but those things happen...

We have a few ones flying at our field, that makes everyone else land, and wait a while... Noone ever says something, but if I took my plane up, and all of a sudden everyone else landed, I would guess they didnt like my flying ;-)

I saw a big scratchbuilt scale model fly into a small and well used (almost solid epoxy and tape) trainer, it was totally the scale models fault, initiating an manouvre he couldnt continue, and aborting into the other guys flightpath...

The guy with the gluepile trainer was devastated, the guy with the scale model yelled at him but the whole club (all that was there) stood up for the trainer pilot, after all, the trainer took off first, the trainer was flying straight and level, well below the scale plane and in a smaller circle around the field, when the scale plane tumbled into his flightpath.

The scale pilot wanted the trainer pilot to pay for his plane, but the club went inbetween and the outcome is that they paid their own damages and we lost a PITA scale modeller that almost didnt know how to fly as a member. We had cake the next clubflying to celebrate...

There are plenty of clubs that allow up to 6 in the air at a time. I haven't seen any higher incidence of mid-airs there than anywhere else. Your own experience bears this out.

What can you do?

When crazies like that are in the air you can: Stay on the ground until they're really done. Don't think about asking them to hold off, really go over and ask! If people won't cooperate and respect your requests (as long as they are not unreasonable), complain to the club officers.

There's a time and place for everything and it comes from having a proper respect for the other guy. Too many people think of every model as a toy and lack the respect for the time and effort the owner put into it. Too many of those responded here.

All it takes is a little communication and respect! How many here can't manage one or both of these?

Chuck

We allow five, but even that's not engraved in stone, I actually saw six guys in the air at one time. We do require spotters, but even a spotter is no guarantee. I had a mid air that happened so fast that the spotter standing next to me, or the other guys spotter didn't see coming. Shit happens. Bill (From Mad Cow country)

Well, I saw this happen to a custom Ultimate Biplane at our field. The pilot of the Ultimate and the pilot of the basic trainer he met were both flying at "normal" speed. The trainer took the outboard top wing off the Ultimate and broke up in the air. The pilot of the bipe kept it in the air for about 15 seconds before stalling and spinning it into rubble.

Stuff happens. I've lost a plane to a mid-air (albiet in combat). You build, you fly, you crash.

Unless there was a specific violation of a field rule, that's the way it goes. People who worry about it (the pattern guys at my field come to mind) fly when they're alone or they get out of the air when someone takes off.

George

Seems that everytime I fly combat, I nail sombody's airplane or something (the ground)! And I have been flying R/C for 24+ years!

--bob

I had a mid-air with a 33%'r! I lost my .40 size Mig3 and he lost a prop!

UNFAIR!!!!

As well you should! Shoot-downs are a whole different animal! And down right stupid!! (preventable)

--bob

shoot-downs.

It's always a good idea to 'call your manouver' when flying R/C...Especially over the runway!

Get a spotter! Someone to help you see the Big Picture. 'Course that won't stop those who insist in flying in your space!

If I am flying and I think my 'space' is being infringed upon, I might do an extra 360 and let the offender by or go to the other end of the field....giving me a little more room till he catches up with me..

At our club, we have several IMAC flyers trying to practice their pattern. When they fly, we give them the air. As soon as they land WE fly our smaller planes....well most of the time.. THEY know how much they have invested in their planes and MOST don't want to loose to a .40 size trainer!! So they let us have the air... We have learned to SHARE the AIR!

I'm just a newbie who can only apply common sense to this situation. Fact is, mid-airs will happen no matter how hard people create rules to avoid them. In a perfect world they would never happen, but they will, so the best that we can do is strive to get closer to that impossible zero.

Assuming no local rules/regs were violated then neither party can be held responsible. However, the event should trigger a quick review of what took place to see if lessons can be learnt and, if necessary, new rules formulated. Does you club (or whatever) have a means for post incident reviews?

If there is no rule preventing disparate aircraft flying together then no rule was broken BUT perhaps such a rule is needed to deal with such situations. Without pointing blame, one would question the logic (albeit in hindsight) of flying such disparate aircraft in close proximity to each other.

End of the day, it was an unfortunate situation and if no clear violation of any rules took place it's a "no blame" situation where each pilot just accepts the loss.