OT- More Killed in California Than in War in Iraq!

I think we're all just waiting for that "Missouri Moment."

Jim

First you want to use the entire population of California..then compare it to a select group, ie the soldiers.

Talk about apples and oranges.

Now if you lads havent noticed..there is a war on. In wars, things get broken, people die or get maimed.

If you take the actual combat deaths that have occured in Iraq, not the vehicle rollovers, the drownings and so forth..we are still far below the 2000 KIA number, after 2+ yrs in Iraq. Its been estimated we are killing on average..3000 tangos per month. You will note the very few suicide bombers these days..and the reason is they have largely run out of folks willing to strap on a bomb and kill themselves with a group of people. Its an asysmetrical war of attrition..shrug..not one we have experienced before of this nature, an yes..mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made as the nature of the war changes.

Take the same group of males of the same age group, and compare their deaths here in the US through simply traffic accidents

Lets take a look, shall we?

From 1-4 the death rate per 100,000 people is 38.3 From 5- 14 the death rate per 100,000 people is 22 From 15- 24 the death rate per 100,000 people is 90.3 From 25- 44 the death rate per 100,000 people is 177.8 From 45- 64 the death rate per 100,000 people is 708 For people over 65 the death rate per 100,000 people is 5,071.40

Causes of Death Number of Deaths Rate per 100,000

Causes of Death Number of Deaths Rate per 100,000

Oh oh....in both age groups..which comprise the age range of troops in Iraq...it would appear that Pneumonia kils far more people in a single year, than we have killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined in 2+ yrs of war.

Motor vehicle accidents kill more by an order of magnitude in a single year.

Homicides and legal interventions are 5x as high in the US in a single year, as total causalties from all causes in 2+ yrs of war in 2 combat zones..combat zones that freed 50,000,000 people

Oh oh....

"In the winter of 2004/05 (December to March) there were an estimated

The number of additional deaths occurring in winter varies depending on temperature and the level of disease in the population, as well as other factors."

Seems spending the winter in the UK is deadly. I strongly suggest our British cousins move.

Pull out of the UK now!!!!

And their death rates are horrific!!!! Even their homicide rates are orders larger than in Iraq

Do get a grip, wanker. You appear to be an utter buffoon. Better to not post on Usenet and be thought an idiot..than post and prove it.

GUnner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the s*it out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

The turkey call is a box type and the dog-buts are clean...I ain't cleaning the crate!

The neat thing about our dog - he doesn't eat cookies - he hides them in corners and under stuff. He will eat small chunks, but half up size he won't. So I can point to one any time I need an excuse. Not often but available.

I don't know if he is bagging them for a poor day some day or what.

Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Tom Gardner wrote:

And you are still not including the murdered babies...by abortion.

You should take your own advice, the intelligence behind your line of reasoning puts you on a parallel with Bush's. (very low)

Gunner Asch wrote On 12/03/05 02:19,:

Differences between Kalifornia and Iraq:

1. California has WAY MORE guns than Iraq.

2 Iraq has a population that is largely hostile to the current US administration. Ok, bad example....

1. Iraq has a large number of armed insergents who shoot at anything with a uniform, and kill innocent civilians. In California, we have managed to contain that sort of thing to LA.

1. Californa has a valuable export product that everyone wants. Iraq has... Ok, nuther bad example...

2. Its harder to get into California from neighboring states.

1. Iraq had a despot ruler who was deposed by force. Ok, so that one dosen't work either, shut up.

2. Iraq has neighboring states that wish its destruction. Darn ! I think Nevada is ok with us.

1. Finally, the two major warring parties in California are not armed. Ok, at least they aren't shooting at each other currently.

Clark Magnuson wrote On 12/03/05 11:39,:

That we need to send sick people to Iraq ?

Yes, he was a real one, that's for sure. Not some nazi-come-lately.

Interestingly that link you provided had as one of its conclusions that he attempted to circumvent the Geneva Convention.

I think today our own government would give him a medal for that.

Jim

Oddly that is sort of where the film fell apart, isn't it.

He was being a rather gracious host (especially given the circumstances) and really the two of them did not have that much of a fundamental disagreement. Yet moore belabored his 'points' badly and undermined the credible part of the film.

Jim

Here's another tour group leisurely walking down Rodeo Drive.

Ron

One reason would be that Germany declared war on the US on December 11th,

LOL. "Those who forget history, are doomed to.... post about it on usenet!"

Jim

And my wife - a History major - just shook her head and tanks Geoff for the www page. One issue she has seen is schools skip over very important subjects for several reasons :

1. time (mostly not used correctly)
2. Liberalism - want to rewrite that part next year - so we won't talk this year...
3. Never understood it in the first place - damn if I'll let the nippers learn more.

Martin :-) Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

jim rozen wrote:

Actually it was the Japanese Foreign Minister and the Japanese Chief of the Army General Staff, who signed the surrender document on Mighty Mo. I had a relative on board for the signing.

Funnily, last Friday, I was on board at Pearl Harbor, having a look around. The area of the signing is devoted to the documentation of the surrender. On a metal context, the helmsman's battle station would make the "Panic Room" of all panic rooms with walls and door at least 12 inches thick.

Tom

I stand corrected there, I should have known that hirohito would not have made the trip to be there. Apparently it was incredibly tough to get a 'ticket' to witness that ceremony on the deck.

Your relative was a truly lucky man.

Jim

Actually luck had nothing to do with it, he had distinguished himself as a Corps Commander in the Burma campaign. As for luck, he lost both sons in WWII.

Tom

First off, no one better exemplifies that idea than you do. You are the one that posted the comparison between murders in California and war deaths in Iraq. That was stupid. Clearly, you believed there was some cause for comparison. And your implication that it's less dangerous to be a trooper in Iraq than it is to live in California has been debunked. So instead of acknowledging your error instead you engage in a silly exercise in statistics to try to make the point that the number of Americans killed in Iraq is really nothing to be concerned about, being so small and all. Your s*it is very weak!

Since you are a vaunted historian you should know that in previous conflicts the reports of losses has always been reported as casualties, not simply the dead. For example, in the battle of Iwo Jima the casualties were nearly

In his attempt to make Bush look good Gunner can trivialize the death of our troops all he wants. He can make excuses all day long why it is okay. He can compare statistics and show how insignificant their deaths really are. That is all well and good. But the fact remains, some Americans are paying a high price for Bush's miscalculations. They are paying with their children's lives and to them the loss isn't trivial. Right wingers like Gunner like to think of themselves as patriots, but as they minimize the losses others have suffered while continuing to support the interventions in the affairs of other sovereign nations, it's plain to see they are anything but patriotic. They're willing to keep the war going year after year as long as it's other people who are paying for it. And all so the Gunners of the world can say "we're winning".

Hawke