OT- More Killed in California Than in War in Iraq!

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:19:48 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

April 17, 2004 PULL OUT NOW!

I received the following by email. The provenance is unknown. Enjoy:

It's time to reevaluate our involvement.

Every day there are news reports about lack of public safety.

Every night on the TV are photos of death and destruction. Why are we still there?

We occupied this land, which we had to take by force, but it causes us nothing but trouble.

Why are we still there?

Their government is unstable, and there is no leadership or will to change the current system.

Why are we still there?

Many of their people are crude and uncivilized. Why are we still there?

There are more than 100 religious sects, which we don't understand. Why are we still there?

We can't even secure the borders. Why are we still there?

They are billions of dollars in debt and it will cost billions more to rebuild, which we can't afford. Why are we still there?

It is becoming very clear!

We must abandon California.

( from

)

-- The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease. --Voltaire (1694-1778)

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- Medicine-free Website Development

I guess we're supposed to forget the Iraqi killed as though they don't count as part of the equation??? Or is this supposed to be funny and I'm spoiling the joke???

dennis in nca

Forget about them ???? I never thought about them to begin with.....F*** em ALL....

I think that there is some confusion as to how to look at these numbers (dead soldiers vs. Califorinba murder victims). I am not going to be moralizing about how unfortunate it is that we send soldiers to die for bad reasons (as opposed to california murders which are not directed by the government).

The rate at which US troops die is not that huge and many countries waged wars with much greater losses.

What is important here is a few aggravating factors:

1) The number of dead soldiers understates casualties, as there are many injuries that do not end up with death, but are very debilitating.

2) we have an all volunteer military and while there is plenty of suckers and adventure seekers, enrollment will (and does) suffer when potential soldiers realize that the military pay is not worth the risk of death, injury, and time wasted in Iraq.

3) A way of waging a war that makes casualties relatively low, is extremely expensive. For the government that is deep in debts and deficits, it is very difficult to sustain the level of expenditures required to keep an illusion that the war could be possible won at some point.

4) The military itself is structured in such a way that it is very difficult to avoid troop reductions for the very simple reason of basically lack of troops. They already abused national guard etc. So, the brouhaha that we hear about troop reductions covers the fact that they are basically unavoidable.

5) The consequences of losing this war will be severe, in fact, much more severe than the consequences of not starting this war in the first place. Saddam's regime was not a threat to the US, in fact it provided the US with a good excuse to stay in the Gulf. But Bush (and all of us who supported this war then) should have thought about it prior to the start of the war.

6) There is an old adage about how easy it is to start wars, but how difficult it is to end them. That should be a sobering message to those who think that "just ending the war" is such an easy thing to do. It is not.

7) In the long run, the chances of this war ending as a defeat of the US, are very high. It is a situation where no good options exist.

8) What is clear is that letting the same people who started the war and lied about everything throughout, to continue the war, is not a smart thing to do.

9) My own opinion is that the best course of action is to apologize to Iraqis, and withdraw most forces, and to continue meddling into Iraq. i

How dare you put things in perspective! The lefties depend on indifference and ignorance to make their points through the media. LOL Bugs

How many of these Californian homicides had something to do with linear bearings?

(Gladly pay whatever, so I can REALLY bitch)

Yall are watching far too much leftwing media sources if you think we are losing in Iraq.

Even a few honest Democrats think you are nuts.

News you wont see on the Big 3....

Here is a web site dedicared only to IRAQI MASS GRAVES. There are 70 pictures of over 300 IRAQI MASS GRAVES.

Here are others. Are you in denial?

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

If we have 150,000 troops for 2 years and get 2,000 deaths, the death rate is .5%/year for US soldiers in Iraq. The death rate for all Americans in the US is 1.5%.

Is being a soldier in Iraq 3 times as safe as being in the US? No, the anomaly is caused by sending such healthy Americans to Iraq.

What does it all mean? Iraq is mission accomplished in terms of war. It is a police action now.

The US has never had it's share of death from AIDs, Stalin, etc.:

DUH!!! 2,400 out of 35,000,000 killed compared to 905 out of 120,000; and the deaths weren't the direct result of an unwarranted invasion. Only the demented could see a parallel.

They're all off their bearings. Like I always say, it was a couple of sad days when we let California and Texas into the union.

'Think we can get Mexico to take them back? We'll make a great deal, and throw in Utah and Idaho while we're at it.

-- Ed Huntress

I'm just poking fun at Gunner. He's kindly supplying some linear bearings out of his personal stash for an upcoming project. I'll NEED them in about a month or two but I'm accumulating all the pieces-parts. I've a long way to go but I do have about 40 man-hours of a technician's time in so far to get some of the basics done.

The trick is for Gunner to remember to ship at the same time he's home...those two events seem to not coincide, and I empathize!

I just hope he isn't murdered before...

Of course not. At the cost of FIVE BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH we *have* to be winning.

Right?

Jim

SNIP

Hmmmmmm.....maybe that's why so many of them are just a teensy weensy bit upset with "you".

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

He says something similar to what I said, which is that consequences of defeat are going to be catastrophic. That's my own assessment as well, but that does not preclude the defeat.

I do not personally watch TV. I mostly read articles from news services.

i

How much did WW2 cost per month ? Hummmm just the European theater to make it easy on you.

And the exit stratagy was what again?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Ive got some linear bearings Ive promised for months to send to Tom. In fact..I thought they had been, till I asked my wife and got a blank stare and an ooops.

Its my fault now that they havent been sent. They will be.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner, be realistic. If you equate Pearl Harbor with the WTC attack, we were over and done with WW2 by now. By far.

They didn't *need* an exit strategy. You only need that if you can't WIN the war. They WON ww2. There's nothing to win in Iraq.

It's a quagmire. It costs money we don't have. It costs soldiers lives, for no reason at all besides the neocons' wet dreams. I am proud of the soldiers. I am ashamed of my country's leaders.

Jim

I like to blame my wife for those things, too.

-- Ed Huntress

Having vacated Ca. - I know what happened.

1. Open boarder and yes let the younger radical types Claim to take back the southwest by force. They have a web page...

1. run out as best as possible all military groups - Navy, Army, Marines, ... Real time response teams shipped to Washington from their site on the central coast - so the libs can build another Lefty University and house the homeless.

Increase the bad, the ugly, the drug laden types and decrease the good everywhere.

No wonder.

Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

rigger wrote: