So what?
Yea, Dude, I'm sure that living in a country ruled by religious fanatics, that think that personal hygiene is a sin, and think that nothing invented after the Dark Ages is good would sway my opinion of a bunch of Moslem fundie ragheads.
What were you doing there, searching for Cat Stevens?
Strider
Wake up and smell the coffee! If you want to believe the false propaganda and lies promoted by the Arab Higher Committee and the British seeking to generate support among the Arab populations for the extermination of Israel (even though 'Israel wasn't a state then') that's your choice in a free society where you can hear both sides.
But over there you can only hear and believe one side, the side that is accountable to religious doctrine. And they seem to have forgotten to instruct the students of their dogma that Jews were living there already, albeit in small numbers and the rest emigrated to escape persecution and murder of an entire population. The problem is, however that their well oiled PR machinery and religious dogma never generated enough support amongst the Arab nations to defeat Israel, that's why they seek brainwashed youth to strap explosives to their bodies and shout "god is great" as they murder innocent Arabs and Jews and Americans. Get your head out of the sand.
But rather than getting into a he-said she-said debate over the facts, I choose to support Israel in her fight, which is the same as ours which we discovered after 9/11, an enemy that wants to destroy democracy in the name of god. Did you forget, or are you just a supporter of those whom you call "freedom fighters" who revel in death and destruction and danced in the streets on 9/11 as if they had just won the Super Bowl?
Phil
If the Islamists could learn to reject the modern world the same way the Amish and the Menonites reject the modern world, I know few in the West who'd have any difficulties with them.
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 03:06:30 GMT, Strider wrote
They don't need to resort to such desperate means, they have the ear of the man in charge of the most powerful military on the planet.
Gary
You can use this stupid excuse to preemptively invade literally any country whose citizens were involved in terrorism against America. India'd be a good example. Moreover, getting rid of western channels is a very easy thing to do. They needn't attack the country producing them. In Iran, they broadcast european programmes with the nudity and profanity removed.
There are christians in most arab countries. Jews would be still if not for the creation of Israel. When the jews were being persecuted in spain, they took refuge in muslim countries. Twenty thousand of their descendents still live in Turkey. It was always Europe which persecuted the jews, not arabs.
You fit right in with the rest of the dumb American loons in misc.survivalism with your ignorance of history or even current affairs.
Are you being forced to adhere to a particular religion?
Your assertion is idiotic on the outset. Religion is voluntary in America. It is not in Moslem countries.
Strider
posted to rcm only
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 03:42:58 GMT, Strider brought forth from the murky depths:
-snip-
Look around you. Are you sure -you're- not?
------ We're born hungry, wet, naked, and it gets worse from there. -
The Sikhs, Buddhists, and Hindus are blowing up embassies? I got it, the Hairless-Krishnuts are banging the tambourines again. That's terrorism, alright. Ever have to listen to them pounding and chanting, hour after hour, day after day? (Not likely you have; they'd end up in prison or dead in most Moslem countries.)
Yes, I know the preachers are trying to censor everything coming into the area, do they cover womens legs and cleavage? Both are "attacks" on Moslem morality.
They are not doing so well with the internet.
However. They are NOT, according to their lights, *attacking* the West. They believe they are DEFENDING themselves from attack. It's just that what they count as an attack is not what the West regards as an attack.
Allah allows Moslems to do anything they like to unbelievers (slave raiding in Sudan for example), especially if it's likely to result in the survivors converting to Islam. If an unbeliever tries to prevent the Moslem from doing something, that is, therefore, an attack on the Moslem, and therefore an attack on all Islam.
(For starters, I'm an atheist and regard all religious people as slightly cracked.)
How many Christians?
Is the trend up or down?
How many can attend their churches?
(Are there restrictions on Moslems attending their services in Israel or any Christian country?)
Can a Christian hand out literature on Christianity?
(What Christian, or Jewish, countries prohibit passing out Moslem literature that does not advocate violence?)
How many synagogues and Christian churches are there in, for example Saudi Arabia?
(How many Mosques are there in Israel? What Christian countries prevent the building of Mosques? I don't mean restrictions on building houses of worship in a particular place, I mean "Mosques", specifically.)
What happens when a Christian brings religious material into Saudi Arabia?
(What happens when Moslems carry religious materials, aside from revolutionary screed, into Israel or any Christian country?)
Are you trying to imply that they moved to Israel voluntarily?
The Jews have been chased from piller to post ever since the Romans got fed up with them and kicked their asses in Israel.
But, if the Sepharadim have such fond memories of sheltering in Moorish Spain, why are they so influential in Israel today? Why are there more Jews in Christian/Western countries than in Moslem countries? [LOL, aside from "Israel", their country of origin. Or would it be better for them to return to the original home of Abraham, the goat thief - Babylon (Iraq)?]
Oh, I'm quite certain that the Ottoman Empire (Sultan Bayazid) welcomed the Sepharadim to Istanbul *only* out of humanitarian interests. The Jews being the leading scientists at the time with the best gun smiths had nothing to do with it. Nor did the (taxible) wealth they brought with them. Ferdinand was a shit brained fool for allowing the merchant class to persuade him to give them the boot.
A mere 20 thousand? By now there should be 20 million, or more. Why isn't there? And Turkey is hardly typical of Islamic nations.
That's a laugh. Moslems use a political dictionary. They define acts by who it is doing it and who it is happening to. By Moslem definition, Moslems have never persecuted anyone, nor murdered anyone, nor enslaved anyone, nor robbed anyone.
Other people define things in a slightly different fashion.
And, yes, I know what "Marrano" means, both in it's application to the crypto Jews, and it's slang meaning of "pig". And I also know how the Inquisition got it's start by chasing down and murdering the Marranos and the Moriscoes.
Would you like cites on the restrictions placed on Christians in Saudi Arabia? How about cites on the enslavement of Christians in Sudan? The terrorist activity in the Philippines? Indonesia? A count of the Moslem invasions and massacres in India?
Shall we discuss Sharia law, and honor killings? Death sentences for "blasphemy" and it's rather elastic definitions? Divorce decrees left on cell phones?
(BANG) "Today is a day of rejoicing. The village is relieved of a sinner, and a sinner is relieved of her sins" accidently showing an ankle, wasn't it?).
"Strider" wrote
Oh, _America_. One nation, indivisible, under God. _That_ America. I get it :-)
-- TP
What religion does this phrase promote? How does the voluntary use of this phrase take away your right to be an atheist? When was the last time that the government executed someone for not adhering to a state religion?
You are getting more clownish as you go.
If you are a liberal, you must believe that posting the ten commandments is somehow illegal but a Moslem suicide bomber is a valid expression of his culture.
Strider
No, you don't "get it." Acknowledging the existence of a deity is not indicative of the codified worship of a deity, aka "religion."
It's one of Bush'es new Zero Tolerance programs. It's called Just Say No ! to Intelligence !! The slightest inclination to use your brain and whoosh ! out ya go ! God-fearing Patriotic Americans won't stand that kinda leftist free-thinking crap, ya know. If the Founding Fathers had wanted Americans to use their heads they'da planted watermelon !.
"Tom Stovall" wrote
So what is it? Science?
And those of us who do, wonder whether this deity you're talking about is some kind of has-been celebrity who will dry up and cease to matter in the absence of adequate publicity, such as a mention in the Pledge.
-- Tony P.
A goodly portion of our legal system rests upon someone's ( usually a witness ) willingness to place his hand upon a bible, and swear to God he is telling the truth........
As though a bolt of lightening is gonna strike him dead if he lies or what ???
Or maybe he is gonna go to hell cuzz he lied in court ???
LOL...........
Lets just not ever forget all them witches burned in Salem............
In the United States, it's your call. If you feel the presence of a deity in the Pledge of Allegiance is offensive, no one will force you to mouth the offensive word; if the term "In God We Trust" on your currency offends your delicate sensibilities, you can always divest yourself of the nasty stuff - the salient point being that the United States is a secular state, not a religious state, despite the many official references to a generic deity in our culture. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion and, perhaps more importantly, implies freedom from religion.
kind of has-been celebrity who will dry up and cease to matter
Next time you think for yourself, consider reading for content. Had you done so, you would have noted that when I pointed out the difference between acknowledging the existence of a deity and the codified worship of a deity, I neither asserted nor implied personal acknowledgment.
"Freedom from" does not mean freedom from being exposed to others who are engaged in religious activity, it means freedom from being required to participate.
The First Amendment also guarantees freedom to exercise religion.
I may be wrong, but I don't think that a Bible swearing to God is a Federal legal requirement.
Prison is a possibility.
The USA did not exist then.
Strider
You must be another of those "conservative thinkers" from misc.survivalism.
You have reading comprehension disabilities.
What kind of nutcase (you are excluded) would expect that to work? They (Falwell & Robertson) much prefer bombs from 40,000 feet and Nukes. That's the xtian fundie civilized way.
You must be another of those great "conservative thinkers" from misc.survivalism.
You have reading comprehension disabilities.
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