PING: rbowman

Thanks for the follow-up, and making the information available.

After reviewing, was there anything the domestic industry could have done differently to avoid going extinct, short of a MITI

That's a tough question. We had the technology and we had the capital markets. What we didn't have was 1) better insight into the nature of the Japanese onslaught, especially the operations of the keiretsu -- the big five Japanese banks and their business groups, and 2) the ability to move and change fast enough to do anything about it. In a different way, our car manufacturers got caught in that same, 1-2 trap.

I still doubt that an economy that works like ours can fend off an assault like that, in the short term. In the long term, the inefficiencies and dysfunctionality of the Japanese system caught up with them. But by then, our machine tool industry was gasping for breath.

But their mindset and the unwillingness to believe they were threatened are what made our builders constitutionally incapable to doing anything about it, IMO. They were too fat and happy.

Yeah, Greenlee makes conduit benders, hole punches for cans (rough-in panels)and a lot of construction fashioning equipment. A familiar name is good.

I don't know the story with the machine-tool industry (other than the fact that lots of things are no longer made in developed countries for cost reasons), but as for the auto industry, they had very much become fat and slow for lack of any meaningful competition - US cars became more expensive and less reliable, year after year. Then competition arrived. My Mother bought our first Volvo in the late 1960s, a model

But Volvo wasn't large enough or cheap enough to do much more than annoy Detroit.

Then the Japanese arrived, and they *did* have the price and scale to matter.

The rest of this email has been censored, as it's too ugly for young eyes.

Joe Gwinn

When Japan had 18% of the market the Big 3 called small cars a niche market not worth competing in. Once Japan reached 22% they became a critical threat to Detroit's survival and Congress must Do Something to protect us!

It was a lack of foreign competition that allowed the US machine tool industry to inbreed and to drop the ball. They got a real dose of the globalization that was coming when the Japanese made their assault for market share.

The Big 3 are/were short-sighted, HUYA morons, wot?

I can partly understand their smug belief that most Americans would continue to buy traditional large domestic vehicles. Midwestern cultural attitudes are noticeably different from the East Coast, and they are as bad as New Yorkers at seeing themselves as the standard of normality.

Harleys and full-size pickups still sell very well.

Sounds like D.C. thinking. Feds there, after receiving their $3,000 paycheck for that week, think that poor people aren't poor if they own a TV, a car, and a computer, even if they only make $81.25 per week on Social Security, and even if the computer and TV were given to them and the car was 15 years old and bought used. Normalcy varies, but stupidity is still rampant back there.

Ayup. Full-size pickups are still desperately needed for over half of my work trips and maybe 15% of my home trips. 'Course, my "Harley" was in the shape of a Kawasaki street 90, but it served me well at age

My Harley and I made a likker run yesterday ... another customer out in the parking lot commented to Brian about "that poor guy on the motorcycle , he must be freezing ...' . Brian chuckled and said "nope , not him" , because he knows me well , and knows I dress for it . 'Sides , it wasn't even below freezing . Both the bike and my full-size truck are old enough to tag as antiques ... and repairs are way cheaper than a payment on a newer vehicle .

New Yorkers seem to look to London and Paris for standards AFAIC, almost right on down to the labor markets. Like including themselves in picket lines marching with women and minorities side-by-side.

Most everwhere else in America, people hate to march side-by-side with women and minorities when picketing in front of an employers gates.

(its too tough on primitive superiority complexes)

Brian prolly said "He ain't no wuss. Not a problem.", eh?

And they'll likely continue to run after Old Sol pops the cherry of the grid with some wild solar flares, huh?

I wouldn't want a Harley. Even idling, they put out enough vibration to put the old lady's high-performance vibrator to shame, and enough noise to keep the wolves awake at night. The carbs are finicky and they leak oil. They outweigh a smart car, too. I'll pass. Enjoy!

I wouldn't own a Bummer. Old Hondas are absolutely wonderful until something breaks. Then you shitcan 'em and get a new one. Oops, I lost the thread for a minute. You're talking about "bikes". I was thinking "cars". I know nothing about the 2-wheeled variety. I've played with Hodakas (friends with Combat Wombats) and the leetle Kaw I had, mostly R&R, but not much actual rebuilding.

You, sir, have never bought a Honda part. (car)

Just like Hondas. (car)

I wish. Everything I've seen has been a couple grand, for as old as the '70s and small as 50cc.

I don't trust drivers enough to ride a scoot any more, though. I got hit enough when Vista was just 20k people, fer Cromssake. Nowadays, no matter how defensively you ride, it's sheer suicide. I'd happily ride offroad, though.

I'd love to find a li'l diesel enduro. Anyone game? It's almost Christmas and they're only $17k. I'm worth it, right?

Please, please, please! In pretty Marine OD Green, even!

Gunner Asch on Sun, 07 Dec 2014 20:24:07 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I hada CB350 "back in the day" as cheap transportation, it worked real well.

I'd like another bike, but it isn't the riding in the rain which is the problem, it is the driving in the rain, with all the idiots on the road. And I've already dumped the bike, so I don't need to do that again. And SWILALT (She Who I Love and Listen To) is afraid for me, and I don't want that. Guess I'm just an old softy. But I want to be a really ld softy, one of these days ...

-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

I don't know where you get your info about Harleys , but none of the above are any longer true - at least not for the newer ones . The '39 flathead might be a different storyt if I ever get it back on the road .

I rode a friend's Husky 400 (aka: The Trencher) and it scared the shit out of me. It had a toggle switch throttle, OFF and WFO. That's one bike I only rode one time, and didn't want another go at it.

Another friend had a little Honda CB200 that I fell in love with. It fit my slighter height/weight perfectly. (I got up to 5' 10-1/2" by age 20) The performance/weight curve was exactly what I was comfortable with. I borrowed it for lunch runs a lot.

Another friend had a beautiful and sleek Yamaha Virago 750 which was cool, but too heavy. I think it weighed #100 less than a Harley. I preferred a more sporty bike; something I could throw around a bit in a jam.

Rather than SWMBO? (She Who Must Be Obeyed) Got it.

Grok that. It's downright dangerous even in a car/truck nowadays. Bikes are too open and death/paralysis/amputations are too frequent.

All of the "old Harleys" vibrated. Enough that "Flanders Bars" - rubber mounted handle bars - were a big seller.

I owned a 80 cu. in. Harley flathead while I was living in Florida. Mine had been "enlarged" to 90 cu. in. by a previous owner and was a real stop light drag racer :-)

I don't know where you get your info about Harleys , but none of the above are any longer true - at least not for the newer ones . The '39 flathead might be a different storyt if I ever get it back on the road .

I rode a friend's Husky 400 (aka: The Trencher) and it scared the shit out of me. It had a toggle switch throttle, OFF and WFO. That's one bike I only rode one time, and didn't want another go at it.

Another friend had a little Honda CB200 that I fell in love with. It fit my slighter height/weight perfectly. (I got up to 5' 10-1/2" by age 20) The performance/weight curve was exactly what I was comfortable with. I borrowed it for lunch runs a lot.

Another friend had a beautiful and sleek Yamaha Virago 750 which was cool, but too heavy. I think it weighed #100 less than a Harley. I preferred a more sporty bike; something I could throw around a bit in a jam.

Rather than SWMBO? (She Who Must Be Obeyed) Got it.

Grok that. It's downright dangerous even in a car/truck nowadays. Bikes are too open and death/paralysis/amputations are too frequent.