As a former QC tech for a US factory, one of my tasks was to inspect
incoming shipments using random samples to determine if they did
indeed meet specifications. The shipments came from more than 3500
miles away, with many degrees of separation. One of the things we
checked was chemical content of the paint. (More specifically, we
checked for certain banned compounds and elements.)
That's not idiocy. It's responsible standard operating procedure. Or
at least it was, fifteen years ago.
Are you telling me that factories today aren't inspecting their parts
Of course not. It's also not the topic of discussion in this case.
The factories, are in China. And if they're inspecting 'em, the same
people putting lead paint on the toys are the ones "inspecting" for it.
Mattel or whomever then imports it, obviously without checking it.
Yeah, they share the blame and are the only entity we can actually
legally do anything about, but the ultimate blame belongs to the people
putting banned substances in the products in the first place.
We're not importing toy parts, we're importing toys, packaged and ready
for the store shelf.
As has been pointed out, the distributors should be inspecting those
toys even if they're "ready for the store shelf"
You can blame the Chinese factories all you want. They deserve it. But
unless I misunderstand you, it seems you want to place no blame at all
on the parent companies who are taking them, without any inspection,
and placing them on the store shelves.
In my factory, we shipped out many things "Ready for the shelves" and
we sometimes got shipments returned because of something somebody
found in an inspection. Sometimes it was our fault, sometimes it was a
My point is that those toys should have had a better final inspection
from the people that bought them. Part of the blame goes to the
customer. Not all, but dammit, our people got sloppy too. You're
supposed to keep better tabs on your suppliers than that.
Yes. As I've said several times, both here and on the website I built
to show how bad the problem is, productrecallwatch.com . It downloads
RSS feeds from the CPSC, FDA, DOT, and several other government sources.
I haven't done this week's rundown yet but, dozens of products just last
week with lead paint. From China.
Yes, you are misunderstanding me horribly. I've been quite clear that
the importer is the only one who we can legally do anything with and
they share some of the blame. I have also been quite clear and
consistent that the factories choosing to use toxins in products made
for the US, are doing so intentionally and are ultimately to blame.
Mistakes are also your fault. Whose else would you pretend they are?
Seems to me, the culture is "profit at any cost to the customers, and
apologize if we get caught". That is disgusting, but dozens of items a
week? It is hard to come to any other conclusion.
BULLSHIT. The lead shouldn't be in there in the first place. This
isn't a surprise to the factories deciding to use it.
That is not an excuse for using lead paint. That is not an excuse for
using 1,4-butanediol (metabolizes into coma-inducing drugs if swallowed)
in a childrens toy, instead of the 1,5-butanediol that was specified. A
Chinese factory decided to use the cheaper chemical, despite the fact
that it's not safe.
A factory in China decided to use lead paint on decorations:
What spec do you pretend could possibly be "misinterpreted" which could
lead to someone thinking putting lead paint in direct contact with food
is a good idea?
It's time that the US revokes China's "most favored trade nation
status". Trade _partners_ do not intentionally poison the children of
their customers. Pretending it's a mistake or anything other than a
consious decision based on greed and malice. Which motivation is it?
Are you trying to save a few pennies, or is your primary motivation in
trying, intentionally, to harm the generation of Americans which may
very well go to war with China?
Two of the major recalls were of toys sold by Mattel. They are not a
retailer and yes they bloody well _are_ supposed to act as the QA.
Several were from Toys R Us, which is not some neighborhood shop,
they're a very large franchise operation with centralized purchasing
and they also should bloody well be making sure that what they are
selling in their stores does not violate the safety laws. Jo-Ann
fabrics the same way.
Put it this way, if you bought a saw from Sears and it threw the blade
at you, would you be angry at Sears or would you be angry at the
Chinese because in your opinion it wasn't Sears' responsibility to
perform quality control on the products they sold?
No, idiocy was Mattel failing to ensure that what was sent to them was
what was ordered.
Amen. Buffoon indeed. 35 miles away or
3500 miles away. Makes no difference.
Importers are responsible for QC. But as
I indicated in another post, I had used
the term retailer when I should have
Yes when the manufacturer is paid to do it. Boeing is paid to provide
the airlines with quality airplanes. You think the airline taking
delivery just puts the plane in service without having their mechanics
go over it?
as a man on the earth, I'm sorry for some misfortunes caused by some
"Made in China".
every consumer including me abhors shoddy products.
so what we can do is that never consume shoddy proucts whether it
"Made in China" or "Made in Moon"
AS a man in the street, I'm glad to know various comments about China
which come from the rest of world. Let me know what they are
thinking about China.
as a chinese ,I'm working hard to change : what i can change.
At last i hope China bring chance and benefit instead of harm to you,
to me, to the world.
by the way,
Merry Christmas to everyone
be carefule when you consume whether it "Made in China" or "Made in
As another "man on the street" (actually a dirt road in the forest), I
apologise for my flippant response. Many other discussion groups that I
frequent have been hit hard recently by spammers from China, and I assumed
that you were one of them.
I am the kind of guy who goes 35 miles into town to try to find suitable
parts for projects that i am doing, and am often dismayed to find that all
hardware stores carry exactly the same, poorly made product, usually from
China. I end up making my own, or buying it online from a quality supplier
at a higher price. I do hope that Chiunes products increase in quality.
Perhaps I will then willingly buy Chinese goods.
That's the measure of a man.
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
The issue is guessing what Chinese (or any) products are worth the
money paid for them (I'm happy with my Sieg X3). Unfortunately, the
"race to the bottom" sometimes makes it quite difficult to find a better
made product when many retailers are pushing the lowest cost item to
make their margins. All manufacturers are equally capable of turning out
some horrendous crap.
My druthers for non-US/Canadian/UK - German/Swiss/Japanese, Czech,
Polish/Taiwan, and lastly, Chinese. Bison tools are my current favorite
for quality and price. A bit more precise than I really need, but this
I'd prefer all CNC grade equipment for free, but that's not how things
Stupendous Man wrote:
due to Fe-C phase-diagram, there must be a limit of martensite.
At 850C, the martensite fraction / percentage is around 17%
with special conditions,change the heating temperature, we can obtain
different volume of austenitite at high temperature. when it is
cooled down to the room temperature, the steel obtained different
'fluctuations in tensile strength' --- my mean is that tensile
strength is not line with the temperature.
of course, lots of work need to be done to investigated other circs
and the rule.
// -------- Comment ---------------- //
What would make your data easier to conceptualize would be a graphic
showing the martensite, carbide, and ferrite levels changing as the
annealing temperature increases.
// ------------- Comment ---------------- //
Adding a tensile strength curve to the above graph may show the
relationship between tensile strength, yield point, and the other
Isnt the job of corporations to make money, for both the stockholders
When your competitor off shores his work, and then undercuts your
prices, you have two choices.
1. Offshore your manufacturing
2. Have a big auction and go out of business.
Do you see a viable 3rd alternative?
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