please check syntax error (grammar mistakes) for me

Yes when the manufacturer is paid to do it. Boeing is paid to provide the airlines with quality airplanes. You think the airline taking delivery just puts the plane in service without having their mechanics go over it?

Do you thionk that comapres to a cheap toy?

Just a quick question: How is metallurgy relevant to a lap steel newsgroup, other than possibly in the resonant qualities of the bridge/tailpiece or the steel bar itself? Why ask about tech-note grammar HERE?

As for China as a nation, many U.S. manufacturing jobs were eliminated here and sent to China by greedy corporations whose only interest was in putting more money in their own pockets. It left many Americans either jobless or working for less pay at Walmart selling the very goods they used to make. Forgive the sour grapes, but I don't feel the need to like the current situation. Also, if some Chinese goods are shoddy or dangerous, that's kind of an important point. If you disagree, give YOUR child a Thomas the Tank Engine to suck on. Oh, and, please note that if the original post is truly from China, there's an excellent chance that this thread is being monitored. Think about that.---->JMS

Isnt the job of corporations to make money, for both the stockholders and managment?

When your competitor off shores his work, and then undercuts your prices, you have two choices.

1. Offshore your manufacturing
2. Have a big auction and go out of business.

Do you see a viable 3rd alternative?

Gunner

Convince your customers that despite the higher price your product is better value.

Seems to be working for Sears with hand tools. Look closely and you'll see their Craftsman (but not necessarily Companion or non-Sears-brand) wrenches, sockets, etc marked "made in USA" in the metal. You can get what seems to be equal quality from Harbor Freight for much less money but Sears seems to still do a good business in them.

The longies I'm wearing right now are made of Polartec, from Malden Mills, in MA. Sewn in Qatar or some such but the fabric is American made. I've had cheaper ones--the Polartec is warmer. I don't know what magic Malden does to it, but they do _something_. Chinese fleece just isn't the same.

Then there is the case of the cast iron pipe from China. It is junk metal.

When I welded with Nickel rod (naturally) some pipe flanges the Chinese flanges seemed full of air or light metal - they slumped. When welding the same size and shape from an American foundry they held their shape and welded nicely.

Quality reminds me of the other tigers as they entered the market. Except China seems to be more egotistical and costs our children their lives or memory cells and other ill re-designed / fraud - changes to spec.

India took many of the jobs - so much so that India is pumping up the Universities to make more engineers for the number of placements there.

I think that is a sick concept. Fine for them, but when China says Hell No what will we do ? What about their ICBM program ? Space Program ? Nuke Program ?

Mart> >

Then you vastly limit your market to those that dont mind paying a higer price for goods.

Been watching the threads on Sears bashing for selling shitty tools?

So you are wearing Outsorced stuff and bragging about it.

Bit hypocritical, ne?

Gunner

I have not seen people bashing Harbor Freight wrenches. They seem to work as advertised.

Aside from that...

With the falling dollar, I now find that a lot of US made stuff is finally acceptably priced. For example, just 2 days ago I bought a USA made convertible hand truck for $100 from McMaster.

A Harbor Freight hand truck of similar construction is $49. I went to HF and compared them. There are many minor differences and the US version of it is much stronger. (material thickness, casters etc)

I have a question about cost of wrenches. I thought that making wrenches is automated. There is not much labor cost in wrenches. They are stamped, forged, polished etc, and that all seems to be a fully automatable process with no need for much human input. Hence labor cost is not a big consideration. Am I mistaken?

Still lots of people needed. Technicians to monitor those machines and adjust tolerances to a specific criteria. Engineers for quality control, to design new products, build or modify the those automatic machines, packagers, shippers, delivery, and dozens of other areas I haven't mentioned. Agreed, automation has eliminated a good deal of the employee roster, but it brings it's own specific need when it comes to human involvement. The biggest difference between now and fifty years ago is that many of the skills have changed, but not all of them.

Be a little careful when you are making your decision to buy the "Made in the U.S.A." model. Do a bit of research on what work has to be accomplished in the U.S. to justify the label. You will find that the entire device does not have to be manufactured in the U.S. to qualify. Just some of it.

For example: there is a banjo advertized as "Made in America" which legally meets the requirements for that status. But all of the components that make up the banjo are manufactured in Asia - it is bolted together in the U.S.

Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply)

Here, this hand truck is welded together, not bolted. If only welding and painting was done in the USA, I would be satisfied. You made a good point, though.

I toured the snap-on plant in Kenosha about 10-15 years ago, and was amazed at the amount of hand-work being done for what seemed to me could easily be done by machines. Maybe that's changed now but it was impressive.

I look at Harbor Freight stuff as "good for light duty use only." The HF hand truck is fine if you're going to use it as 'raw materials' get out the welder and turn it into a mobile wire dispensing rack. Or use it semi-permanently for moving items at a remote location where it won't be getting hammered daily - cheap enough to leave on site, and it's there when you need it.

(Bought a $15 on sale HF hand truck for making a wire rack. Dad doesn't understand the subtleties - he saw it, grabbed it, and overloaded it with something the other commercial duty trucks we have around the house can take in stride... It now has a nice set of US made wheels that he bought after the plastic hubs broke right out.)

Or for the back of an open truck where if they cut the small chain and steal it you won't shed a tear. The chain cost more...

I would be VERY leery of buying mission-critical safety gear there, like a chain-fall hoist that would be used with personnel near or under the load - or as the load. You suck it up and pay the extra for a CM that is designed and certified for the duty. The right safety gear may be expensive, but it's still far cheaper than a funeral.

-->--

PS: By the way, how did we get here from 'Please check syntax error...'?

The cost of those automated machines is reflected in the cost of the tool. As others have mentioned there are a lot of poeple still involved in the manufacture of the tools - not everything is automated. Visions of a button pusher reclining in a Lazy-boy reading (looking at) nudie books are right out of a 1950's expo.

Pete

For what its worth: We had a project some 15 years ago where the client specified "snap-on, or equal" so we ordered snap On - some $150,000 worth. As I result I got to meet the Asian Rep who when asked about the high cost of their tools blamed Product Liability Insurance for a substantial part of the cost of a Snap On wrench.

I suspect the "I got it and you want it" syndrome also has some effect on the price.

Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply)

You sure it isn't the distribution system?

Snap-on, 8 mpg truck with franchisee drives to each sale, cost embedded in product.

Sears, mpg doesn't matter, customers drive their car, truck or van.

Wes

Not on a project in central Sumatra, Indonesia. They did honor the guarantee fully though. Every month the country rep would visit the site and take an inventory of all the broken snap on tools we had collected. Within a week or so they delivered replacement tools to our office in Jakarta.

Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:remove underscores from address for reply)