Or you can get a 2-1/2# bar of stainless compound from McMaster and pass it down to your grandchildren - shipping will be $4 or so. It's not Dico, but I wouldn't worry about that. There is some difference between brands, but not enough to notice unless you're using an awful lot of the stuff. I used to buy 30# at a time for building SS marine hardware.
Jeez, I hate it when some lazy s.o.b. does that to save himself 30 seconds and a few steps, in the process costing you maybe hours, dollars, and miles driven. The retail business has gone to hell except for a few businesses that know the value of treating customers right.
:On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:50:39 -0700, Dan_Musicant :wrote: : :>"Dico!" Bingo. One of the tubes is for stainless and from what he :>described I figure it for 2-3 liquid ounces per tube. I guess I'll truck :>on over there today and pick it up. I suppose it's cheaper than getting :>something shipped. : :Or you can get a 2-1/2# bar of stainless compound from McMaster and :pass it down to your grandchildren - shipping will be $4 or so. It's :not Dico, but I wouldn't worry about that. There is some difference :between brands, but not enough to notice unless you're using an awful :lot of the stuff. I used to buy 30# at a time for building SS marine :hardware. : :
Sounds like (and looks like... I had a look) a real good deal. I just bought a 3.5 oz stick of Dico Stainless Steel polishing compound, though ($4.10 + tax). I don't know how far this stuff goes. I may be needing more compound sometime soon.
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:25:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
: :"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message :news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... :> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:57:09 -0400, "Ed Huntress" :> wrote: :>
:> : :> :"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message :> :news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... :> :> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:03:19 -0400, "Ed Huntress" :> :> wrote: :> : :> : :> : :> :> :There is a way to strip almost all of the old compound off a wheel but :> I :> :> :don't discuss it in public, for the same reason I don't discuss :> lighting :> :> :charcoal fires with gasoline. d8-) It's a good way to put an eye out :> if :> :> you :> :> :aren't good at it. :> :>
:> :> Guess you use a dangerously volatile solvent. I figure I'll stick with :> :> your method below, store in plastic bags. :> : :> :No and yes. The method involves using a knife or a sharp chisel on the :> :spinning wheel. It's widely used by buffers in the plating business. :> Don't :> :do it. That sucker can flip and come right back at you. I have a big :> framing :> :chisel (called a "slick") that my great-grandfather used for :> timber-framing :> :houses. It has a two-handed handle and it's almost 3 inches wide. Unless :> you :> :have one of those, you're asking for trouble. :> : :> :I don't know the MAAS polish that a couple of people here have :> recommended. :> :If it works as well as some have said here in the past, I'd give it a :> try. :> :It sounds like it might be chemical because the hard part about polishing :> :really bad stainless is getting through the oxide layers. Chromium oxide :> is :> :harder than a witch's heart, and it can get pretty tough on old pots and :> :pans. If they've been overheated, you also pick up some nasty iron oxides :> to :> :go with it. Polishing old, beat, overheated stainless can be difficult, :> at :> :least until you get down to clean metal. I've found that the Dico :> stainless :> :polish is relatively good at getting through that stuff without :> scratching :> :the steel, among the mechanical methods. :> : :> :The only chemical I know of that eats it right off is hydrofluoric acid, :> :which is what welders use to clean stainless welds. Don't even think :> about :> :it unless your health insurance is very good. :>
:> I called Harbor Freight and they only have a kit with one bar, who knows :> what it is. :>
:> I recalled an old quite large hardware store that I figured for :> something. When I called a few days ago, asked if they have Dico, I was :> told "no," and I took it for an answer. So, I call back today and ask :> what they DO have (I figured they HAVE to have something!). A guy says :> he doesn't know (read I'm too lazy to find out). I was persistent and he :> finds out... He says they have a package of 4 tubes for different types :> of metal. I ask him how much, he says $7.49, I ask what brand, he says :> "Dico!" Bingo. One of the tubes is for stainless and from what he :> described I figure it for 2-3 liquid ounces per tube. I guess I'll truck :> on over there today and pick it up. I suppose it's cheaper than getting :> something shipped. : :Jeez, I hate it when some lazy s.o.b. does that to save himself 30 seconds :and a few steps, in the process costing you maybe hours, dollars, and miles :driven. The retail business has gone to hell except for a few businesses :that know the value of treating customers right.
I figured I was going to go in there today and buy that 4 stick Dico assortment, but decided to go the other direction on my bicycle first and check out what I could find in the other direction. That inluded 2 large hardware emporiums (Orchard Supply and Home Depot), and the machinist I spoke of. Couldn't find the machinist, gonna have to see if I saved his address. Maybe they closed shop.
Then I had the idea to check out another big hardware place and voila, they had Dico SS polishing compound in a 3.5 oz stick. They call it "SCR." $4.10, seemed reasonable so I bought a stick. Then I went back to Home Depot and bought a 6" firm cotton buffing wheel. I figure that since my grinder (homemade) is relatively slow in RPM, I can use the extra diameter of a 6" wheel over a 4". Maybe I can get by with that wheel, or that and the 4" I already have with the brown tripoli embedded (I think that's what's on it).
I figure if I want more buffing wheels I can pick them up here and there. Harbor Freight had some, as I recall.
: :
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:25:58 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed Huntress" quickly quoth:
Whatever grit dirt and color of crayons they find on the floor that day? I like the Lee Valley green crayons for my strop. Good stuff, Maynard. I haven't tried it on the buffer.
My favorite is when they go look, take ten minutes to do so, and then have forgotten to check the price when they finally do get back to tell me that they did, indeed, have the product.
Yeah, I learned to let it eat through like you're describing. I took to wearing a dust mask (and buttoned-up collar) at the buffer, too. Dem tings is messy!
Shaving isn't a test of real plane iron sharpness, Ed. ScarySharp(tm) is miles beyond that particular form of dullness.
It goes a long way. I wasn't exaggerating much when I said there'd be something left of a 2-1/2# bar for your heirs.
If you're working on relatively flat surfaces, the stainless compound will work best on a hard buff. See the spiral sewn buffs near the top of McMaster p.2610.
Be careful about snagging the pieces you're polishing with the buff or it'll launch them at high velocity. Always work so that if the work
*does* get snagged it gets thrown down and away from you. Even with experienced operators, the drywall behind my big 7-1/2 HP buffer was full of holes.
It doesn't take a lot. If you put too much on it will just fly off when you spin the wheel. You'll get a sense of how much to put on after you've tried it a couple of times.
BTW, the flying dust is nasty stuff, with all compounds. Wear a dust mask when you're polishing.
You just put some on a firm surface and pull the blade across, like a barber strops a razor. My favorite surface is tempered (hard) Masonite. Smooth cardboard, like oaktag, works well but doesn't last as long.
The heat is for applying the compound. Use a heat gun or an old hair dryer to get it very warm, then rub the stick on the surface. If you do it cold it will go on unevenly, if you try to get much on there. You also can put a few drops of solvent on the stick and then rub it on the surface, but heat works better. Heat the surface after applying the compound and smooth it out with a paper towel or a rag. I charge mine once every year or two. That's all it takes.
The Dico SCR compound strops very quickly and leaves a polished edge. I also use it to charge the canvas side of my razor strop. I use rouge or nothing on the leather side, but that's really just for turning the edge.
It won't hurt the hair dryer but you may have to heat a piece of Masonite for a while to get it hot enough. The heat gun is much faster.
I've never heard about warming the work but I'll try it sometime. As for gloves, buffing is one of the few applications around a grinding machine where most people recommend wearing them. I usually do but I'm damned careful not to get the gloves caught in the wheel.
Eh, I'd just try it cold. That's all I've ever done. But the work does warm up a lot as you're buffing.
Yeah, applying it with power makes a big difference. I polish by hand sometimes, but not on tough jobs. BTW, I have a set of Coastal compounds but I don't think very much of them. They're too crumbly.
-- Ed Huntress
If you repeat the set-up and want to save the drywall (and avoid damaging the pieces being buffed and flung) you might want to hang a big hunk of cargo net or carpet a foot or two out from the wall as a backstop... ;-)
-->--
And not nice on your lungs, I hear. Of course, safety glasses should go without saying.
Tell us about ScarySharp. I could use a good scare.
BTW, I made the mistake of using that stropping treatment on one of my fillet knives when I was younger and foolisher. It was so sharp I couldn't skin a fish with it. The blade went right through the skin, no matter how well you tried to control the blade.
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 00:51:45 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed Huntress" quickly quoth:
Right. Goggles or face shield over my glasses.
Oh, I missed this tip the first time through. That's good to know.
Hah! Cut some paper with it and it'll dull quickly.
:On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:45:34 GMT, Dan_Musicant :wrote: : :>On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:05:25 -0500, Ned Simmons wrote: : :>: :>:
:>Sounds like (and looks like... I had a look) a real good deal. I just :>bought a 3.5 oz stick of Dico Stainless Steel polishing compound, though :>($4.10 + tax). I don't know how far this stuff goes. I may be needing :>more compound sometime soon. : :It goes a long way. I wasn't exaggerating much when I said there'd be :something left of a 2-1/2# bar for your heirs.
Yeah, I read that twice and figured you were being serious. So... how long will a 3.5 oz stick last? Maybe I'll just order the McMaster 2.5#er now while it's up there... : :If you're working on relatively flat surfaces, the stainless compound :will work best on a hard buff. See the spiral sewn buffs near the top :of McMaster p.2610.
Well, I don't know what I'll be working on eventually but right now I'm working on two SS pots, small bulbous (see OP). IOW, not flat surfaces. The buff I bought yesterday was branded Ryobi at Home Depot, is 6 inch, and the label says it's for coarse buffing. It's sewn with close spirals all the way up the sides. I figured a tough close-sewn buff would act not so differently than the one with only one or two concentric rings of stitching and would last a lot longer. The one buff I used (a few days ago) splayed considerably as I was trying to apply the pressure needed to remove the tough coating on the small stove coffee pot I was trying to clean.
I'm even thinking of making homemade plywood flanges to put on the sides of this 6" buff to give it serious stiffness so I can apply pressure without deforming the buff. I could make ~5" flanges easily enough. : :Be careful about snagging the pieces you're polishing with the buff or :it'll launch them at high velocity. Always work so that if the work :*does* get snagged it gets thrown down and away from you. Even with :experienced operators, the drywall behind my big 7-1/2 HP buffer was :full of holes.
Yep on the watchit for snagging. Well, for one thing my buffer is made from a dryer motor, 5.8 amps and 1725 RPM. I'm less apt to have that problem. I'll keep this in mind, though. A few years ago I thought the motor had become irreparable and I shopped grinders and they were around
3600 RPM. However, I was able to fix the darn thing. :) I have to spin the wheel a bit with my hand before turning it on for it to spin up reliably, but it keeps chugging along.Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
: :You just put some on a firm surface and pull the blade across, like a barber :strops a razor. My favorite surface is tempered (hard) Masonite. Smooth :cardboard, like oaktag, works well but doesn't last as long.
I have some masonite. I'll work up a strop. : :The heat is for applying the compound. Use a heat gun or an old hair dryer :to get it very warm, then rub the stick on the surface. If you do it cold it :will go on unevenly, if you try to get much on there. You also can put a few :drops of solvent on the stick and then rub it on the surface, but heat works :better. Heat the surface after applying the compound and smooth it out with :a paper towel or a rag.
: I charge mine once every year or two. That's all it :takes.
Once a year... you're talking about your masonite strop or your buffing wheel?
How much to you put on a buffing wheel and how often do you reapply? The other day I put on more and more in hopes that I'd get more progress in cutting through the tough coat on this SS pot. Right now, the wheel edge is pretty darn saturated with brown tripoli compound. It's a pretty soft
4" wheel.:The Dico SCR compound strops very quickly and leaves a polished edge. I also :use it to charge the canvas side of my razor strop. I use rouge or nothing :on the leather side, but that's really just for turning the edge. : :>
:> I have a heat gun and a hair dryer too. You say "don't care about." Does :> it mess them up? I don't dry my hair with the dryer. Principally I use :> it to soften the glue of stickers on CD cases, that kind of thing, :> before trying to peel them off. : :It won't hurt the hair dryer but you may have to heat a piece of Masonite :for a while to get it hot enough. The heat gun is much faster. : :> The heat gun, well, paint removal, basically is what I do with it. :>
:> BTW, I saw something today in one of the hardware stores saying if you :> heat up the work to 150 degrees, it keeps the compound softer and less :> apt to chunk up. So, they say to use gloves to hold the work. : :I've never heard about warming the work but I'll try it sometime. As for :gloves, buffing is one of the few applications around a grinding machine :where most people recommend wearing them. I usually do but I'm damned :careful not to get the gloves caught in the wheel. : :> Now, with :> a pot I'd think it would be almost impossible to keep it that warm for :> more than a few seconds because the metal is so thin. That is unless I :> try something as weird as filling it with hot water and holding it above :> the wheel. Seems cumbersome, and wonder if it's worth it to try that. :> Don't know the whys and wherefores. : :Eh, I'd just try it cold. That's all I've ever done. But the work does warm :up a lot as you're buffing.
I figured the friction would heat it considerably. : :> First and only time I ever tried :> using a buffing wheel and polishing compound on metal was a few days :> ago. Before that I'd tried elbow grease, a rag and the same compound :> sticks (made by Coastal), with no success at all! It was encouraging to :> see that using an actual buffing wheel gets results. : :Yeah, applying it with power makes a big difference. I polish by hand :sometimes, but not on tough jobs. BTW, I have a set of Coastal compounds but :I don't think very much of them. They're too crumbly.
I've had them for probably 25 years, maybe more. They were cheap and I was interested but didn't really know what to do with them.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I'll keep them for reference.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
Aha. OK, not to steal any of Steve's thunder, but that method was published at least 25 years ago, maybe in _Fine Woodworking_, without the glueing-down of the sheets. That makes it all a bigger job than it has to be. And I have a pack of 2000-grit wet-dry sheets on my shelf that I use for precisely that, and have, for those 25+ years.
I don't dispute that it produces a great edge. I don't think it's any different from the one you get using buffing compound to strop the edge. Sometimes I use one method, sometimes the other.
-- Ed Huntress
I'm talking about the masonite strop.
Jeez, how can I measure that? I just put it on until it's enough. d8-) It doesn't take a lot. Maybe someone else here has a way to explain it. Sometimes you have to re-charge the wheel in the middle of a job, if the work is rough or has edges that keep stripping the compound off the wheel. Usually, though, I charge it every second or third time I use it. Emery seems to wear off fast. Rouge lasts a long time. It's something I just do by feel.
-- Ed Huntress
: :And not nice on your lungs, I hear. Of course, safety glasses should go :without saying. : The other day when I spent 1/2 hour to 45 minutes doing my first powered buff, I had the idea that the air was getting kinda foul. Will any sort of dust mask work? I have an assortment. Suppose I should use my safety goggles, too!
:Tell us about ScarySharp. I could use a good scare.
Well, in the interests of providing a warning so you don't do what I did, Ill tell my little story. For many years (maybe around 20) I've carried a mini Buck knife in my pocket. Looking at it now, it says 426-1 on the blade. I keep it pretty sharp, usually. I was helping out at a shop and had to remove a wood plug and I jammed this knife into the plug in an effort to remove it. I applied quite a bit of force, and the damned blade buckled in spite of the lock mechanism (I didn't touch the release), and it caught the top of my right index finger just behind the first knuckle. It went deep, maybe all the way to the bone.
Here's a picture of the knife, my bandaged finger and a blood soaked bandage I'd just replaced:
The finger healed OK (without stitches), but it still hurts some. It's been almost a year, but sometimes nerves are slow to heal.
: :BTW, I made the mistake of using that stropping treatment on one of my :fillet knives when I was younger and foolisher. It was so sharp I couldn't :skin a fish with it. The blade went right through the skin, no matter how :well you tried to control the blade.
Well, it's a lot easier to dull a knife than sharpen it, right? I suppose that's why you didn't dull it to filet your fish, actually.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
Goggles good. Dust foul. I use cheap dust masks that I buy 50 in a pack.
Aack! I get chills just seeing things like that.
Yes, dulling is easy. d8-) I have one small Rapala fillet knife I keep that sharp these days, and it has just two purposes in life. One is to cut out the red lateral streaks in bluefish fillets, and to shave off the layer of fat under the skin, if it has a layer of fat. The other is to cut out the Y-shaped lateral bones in a pickerel. Otherwise, I don't use it to cut through bone or scales (I probably have 10 fillet knives). And definitely not to skin a fish.
Great idea, I thought cushioning the flying workpieces was the function of the fiberglass insulation.
But I hope never to have to worry about it again, at least not on a daily basis. I've been out of the marine hardware business for over 20 years and don't miss it a bit, though I am proud to know that the company I started is still running and employing a dozen or so people.
The sewn buff sounds appropriate - you might want to try stacking up 2 or 3 to get a width of 3/4" or so. That'll give you more coverage and stiffen things up a bit more.
That works, too, especially if you need a narrow buff to get into tight spots.
I thinks it's more a function of the inertia of the motor and wheels than the HP available. I've been scared just as badly by a 1/2 HP 3600 RPM buffer as by the 7-1/2 HP 1800 RPM machine, which is not too surprising when you consider that the kinetic energy of a mass is proportional to the square of the velocity.
This machine is very similar to my old Hammond.
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 10:03:17 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed Huntress" quickly quoth:
I can't wear those because I can't get them to seal worth a shit. I buy the $2 Wally World masks with the valve and sometimes use an extra strip of soft foam to seal my nose so it doesn't fog up my glasses. (if goggles aren't being used.) They can be reused for a month +.
Ouch!
A couple decades ago, I hadn't yet sharpened Mom's knife for her and was cutting up some beef for stew one time. It caught some gristle and pulled my thumb into the line of fire. It cut halfway through my nail and thumb, widthwise, and stopped. I felt somethign funny and looked down, then started laughing. Mom almost fainted. I soaped up and rinsed it out well, then butterfly bandaged it, changing it and using triple antibiotic (aka Magic Medicine) on it for a few days. After a couple weeks, I almost forgot I'd been bitten. Some people would have freaked out and spent a couple grand at the hospital. I used common sense and a buck in bandaids to accomplish the same thing. I get chills just seeing hospital bills. So there. ;)
I have a nice nose. All the girls used to say so. d8-) i
Speaking of which, did I tell you how much the bills were for the heart attack I had earlier this year? It was two hospitals in one day, then two days recovering in the second one, and then back two weeks later for a few more stents and two days in a room. Total bill: $220,000.
Damn, I wish I got an hourly rate like that.
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