Propane torches

I could weld once - about 50 years ago - but have lost the art. I now
need to do some brazing, but cant justify expensive kit.
Here in the UK there a lot of plumbers torches, and you have to be
careful about getting the right one for brazing. MAPP gas is OK
apparently, but costs an arm and a leg, so I want to stick to propane.
It appears that propane torches running at about 4 bar get hot enough
without an air supply. Does any one know if this is correct please?
What are the respectable makes? Rothenberger seems to be around a lot.
What about Silverline or Bullfinch??
Any ideas welcome.
David B.
Reply to
dwibrooke
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I do small brazing jobs with a "swirl-torch" - it has a vane-shaped gizmo just after the orifice that creates a vortex and it is hot enough with regular propane, at the pressure it come out of a small bottle.
The bottle gets cold quickly though, and does not last long. It's for small parts only...
Reply to
jtaylor
A plain fuel torch, be it propane, butane, MAPP, or gasoline, fuel, is not really suitable for BRAZING work. Now then, I'm sure there are some minor exceptions, but I stand behind my assertion!
If you can live with silver soldering (also called silver brazing, now), that is different and doable with a fuel-only torch. The fit-up requirements are more stringent for silver soldering, however.
The HANDY AND HARMAN definition for the various temperature ranges for joining is as follows:
Soft soldering (typically plumbing, electric, electronic, 400 to 700 deg. F. Silver soldering, 1100 to 1500 deg. F. Brazing, 1600 to 1800 deg. F. Welding, above 1800 deg. F. (with the exception of aluminum)
A fuel-only torch would have a difficult time holding an exposed work piece at 1600 deg. F and above, which is a cherry red colour. If you were to enclose the work piece in insulating material that would change things; but heating it up with a torch in the open, applying filler material in the open, would be a frustrating experience.
To a large measure it depends on the size of the work you wish to do. For jewellry sized work brazing with fuel-only torch may be OK as stated by others.......anything larger....model engineering sized....would require oxy-fuel for satisfactory brazing.
Trust this helps a little.
Wolfgang
Reply to
wfhabicher
David, have a look at:
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(this one look down near bottom of page)
build your own burner from the ironmonger's, if they still have such a beast in the UK.
Mike in BC
Reply to
mcgray
If you happen to have or can get ahold of a "buzz box" stick welder, you could get a carbon arc torch. I've had one for several years for those "once in a while" brazing jobs larger than I can do with a propane swirl torch and a few firebricks to keep the heat contained. I never got around to springing for a full oxy-acetylene rig. You gotta wear a welder's helmet when using it, but it "do work".
Mine was made by Lincoln (scroll down this page):
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I've heard some guys say they made their own cheaply by following plans like these:
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HTH,
Jeff
Reply to
Jeff Wisnia
"If you happen to have or can get ahold of a "buzz box" stick welder, you could get a carbon arc torch...I've heard some guys say they made their own cheaply by following plans like these:"
Of course, Don Meador also has a second book on building a water resistor, for operating a carbon arc torch without an arc welder, and yet a third book on salvaging carbon rods from old batteries. I haven't yet bought these books, though they are high on my list for future purchases:
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Mike Mandaville
Reply to
MikeMandaville
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As a point of reference, I had no trouble silver soldering loops of 1/8" diameter SS rod to the back of a 3" diameter 1/1" thick SS disk with a standard propane torch. I had it parked on a firebrick, which tends to reflect the heat back towards the work.
Doug White
Reply to
Doug White
More information on what you are trying to do would help. Propane will work for silver brazing and for brazing copper with Silphos. The size of the object makes a big difference as well as using insulating firebrick or something to keep the object from losing heat.
Dan
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Reply to
dcaster
Small items, or sheet steel, I have no problem brazing with a turbo torch, and now that I have two of them,I could probable do larger items. My favorite though remains silver solder, Several years ago, I cut the bell ends from 3" bronze/brass toilet flange and 90 deg. elbow then silver soldered the two together to allow the lower level toilet to be mounted at floor level rather than on a platform as the previous homeowner/non handyman had tried to install it. I have both torches mounted to adapter hoses so the can be fed from 20 pound BBQ tanks so no problem with the disposables freezing. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
Reply to
Gerald Miller
I've got the same arc torch. I took a welding lens and rigged up a holder for it so it attaches to the arc torch. One thing I didn't like using a helmet was I couldn't see the steel colors as it heated up. Before I knew it, the steel started melting. This new way, I just move the lens out of the way to peek to see how the colors are running.
Reply to
Marc
Right. And they don't require 4 bar. 20 PSI (1.35 bar) is ample. I think Ron Reil said he brazed two cannonballs together with a Reil burner.
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Reply to
Don Foreman
I can silver solder for the most part - but when I was bronze brazing - the bronze absorbed some iron in the steel - and the alloy turned hard and high temp. That is when I changed to a 30 gal. Propane and a tall Oxy bottle. That melted the hard and high temp alloy and continued the job. Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
Gerald Miller wrote:
Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn
Then get yourself to eBay, where such things are cheap and plentiful.
Sort of. You don't need 4 bar, but you do need decent flow rates. Most of all though, you need either oxy-propane, blown air or (cheapest) a decent firebrick hearth. Some decent insulation and a few spare bricks to pile above it is like doubling your torch output.
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If you can get an oxygen cylinder though, I just _love_ my oxy-propane rig. Kit's cheap, it's the bottle rental that costs.
As eBay really is cheap and plentiful for new kit, then get yourself a decent propane regulator, not an undersized caravan one.
Rothenberger are good. Bullfinch are *%^£ expensive. Silverline are as good as you'd expect.
Reply to
Andy Dingley
IMHO, it's not worth building your own Ron Reil burner in the UK.
- They're fussy beasts. There's a lot of fiddling about with precise sizes that Ron has sorted out already. The advantage of his burner design is that he already knows a #23 twiddly works and a #22 doesn't, you don't have to do the experiment with both.
- You can't get the bits in the UK. Although we do have bits, we can't just find the exact same part numbers and so it's not possible to get the advantage of a simple ready-adjusted build by using exactly matching sizes.
- There's a guy in the USA (linked from or to Ron's site) who makes and sells this design of burner.
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're well made, neatly finished and his prices are reasonable. If you want such a beast, getting one of his is just a lot easier.
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Reply to
Andy Dingley
Not all of it. You need temperature too.
"Weed burner" burners are cheap and commonplace and they make _lots_ of BTUs. However the flame is too big and the temperature too low to be a great deal of use for metalworking.
Reply to
Andy Dingley
Then a match will melt a bridge. But it won't. The match doesn't have enough energy, just temperature.
Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
Richard J K>
Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn
Sigh. Which is why I said, it's all about BTUs, build your own (big) Reil burner, and immerse your parts in flame. Try to follow the context.
Reply to
Richard J Kinch
Yep - I use one of Ron's designs in a small furnace. Melts metal just nice.
Martin
Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member
Richard J K>
Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

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