Gas welding

I know there has been discussion in the past about Oxy/MAPP gas welding but I wonder if anybody with recent experience can help me out.
I can no longer justify the cost of the rent on my BOC Acetylene bottle and want to change to Oxy/MAPP gas. I presume my existing Hobby Gas oxygen bottle and regulator will be OK for Oxy/MAPP. I realise that I will have to change the acetylene regulator.
The question is can I use my Oxy/Acetylene welding torch (BOC Saphire)and hoses with MAPP gas?
Thanks in advance.
John H
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On 07/10/13 23:58, John H wrote:

No idea about the MAPP gas - never heard of it. However, as your torch will have individual valves for oxygen and for gas, there's no reason why you can't use it.
But, you can get oxygen and acetylene cylinders of your own, and get them refilled - there's a firm which supplies them, and they advertise in Classic Motorcycle - ah! Found it!
www.adamgas.co.uk - (same fitting as BOC - no bottle rental.
If you want the phone number I will e-mail you with it.
--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.
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On 08/10/13 01:05, RustyHinge wrote:

There are a number of suppliers offering rent-free acetylene "from next month" - and there have been for a couple of years or more.
I don't know of any who do it right now though - but I'd like to.
-- Peter Fairbrother
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On 08/10/13 01:05, RustyHinge wrote:

Should be http://www.adamsgas.co.uk/ for the gas supplier.
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On 08/10/13 10:56, David Billington wrote:

Sorry - silly fingers/keyboard - always having trouble with both...
--
Rusty Hinge
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"RustyHinge" wrote in message

I don't see acetylene on their web site - do they do it?
AWEM
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On 08/10/13 13:21, Andrew Mawson wrote:

Dunno - but I use oxy-'Turbogas' which goes to 3,600 C IIRC. I'd guess that the major component would be acetylene, with a more modern method of dissolving or making safe the pressurised acetylene.
I expect Adamsgas would be selling a similar product.
--
Rusty Hinge
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On 07/10/13 23:58, John H wrote:

Yes, you can reuse the Hobby Gas oxygen bottle and regulator.
Yes, you can reuse the Sapphire torch, and the hoses (if they fit).
I may be able to point you to a suitable MAPP regulator for about a tenner, depending on which MAPP bottles you intend to use.
Of not, any propane regulator will in practice usually work well enough; but you will want to change them every so often.
Details depend on usage, but for a low hobby use situation that's about every five or ten years. The MAPP can eat away at the insides of a propane regulator, depending on what it's made of, so some care in use - ie, switch off before or unscrew the regulator between uses - is called for.
However, your real problem is most likely to be - where do I get the MAPP gas from? Petrogas stopped making it some time ago, and supplies are hard to get now.
Note that eg the Rothenburger cylinders marked as MAP-GAS are not MAPP, they are propylene, as are most of the other small-scale supplies with mapp-like names as used by plumbers etc.
These are ok for eg high-heat gas-air brazing - but they aren't hot (or low-hydrogen) enough for oxy-gas welding, you will need real MAPP or acetylene for that.
It isn't impossible to get small MAPP cylinders - but it isn't at all easy. Do you have a source in mind?
-- Peter Fairbrother

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"John H" wrote in message
I know there has been discussion in the past about Oxy/MAPP gas welding but I wonder if anybody with recent experience can help me out.
I can no longer justify the cost of the rent on my BOC Acetylene bottle and want to change to Oxy/MAPP gas. I presume my existing Hobby Gas oxygen bottle and regulator will be OK for Oxy/MAPP. I realise that I will have to change the acetylene regulator.
The question is can I use my Oxy/Acetylene welding torch (BOC Saphire)and hoses with MAPP gas?
Thanks in advance.
John H
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I faced the same dilemma over the BOC rental costs, and went over to Air Liquide. You need to pay a deposit for the cylinders, and the price of the gasses is more than BOC, but being a low volume user, it should yield worthwhile savings over the long term. And Air Liquide do offer acetylene if you would prefer to stay with that instead of MAPP
http://www.albeegascylinders.com/albee-flame.html
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Thanks for the answers and links so far.
The gas I originally looked at is MAP-Plus which is available from Toolstat ion at 10.78 a cylinder. It is a mixture of Propane, Propene and Dimethy l Ether. I don?t know if burns as hot as MAPP which according to Wikipedi a is Methylacetylene-propadiene.
Regarding acetylene,I have looked at the Albee Professional web site and sp oken to their stockists. I?ve been quoted an initial cost for the purchas e of an acetylene bottle in the region of 220.00 plus 70.00 for refil ls. The current annual cost of acetylene rental from BOC is 72.00.
There is one plus point from buying the Albee bottle is that it is owned by the purchaser and presumably would have a resale value.
As an aside, Hobby Gas and Adams Gas are the same people.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
John H
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"John H" wrote in message
Thanks for the answers and links so far.
The gas I originally looked at is MAP-Plus which is available from Toolstation at 10.78 a cylinder. It is a mixture of Propane, Propene and Dimethyl Ether. I don?t know if burns as hot as MAPP which according to Wikipedia is Methylacetylene-propadiene.
Regarding acetylene,I have looked at the Albee Professional web site and spoken to their stockists. I?ve been quoted an initial cost for the purchase of an acetylene bottle in the region of 220.00 plus 70.00 for refills. The current annual cost of acetylene rental from BOC is 72.00.
There is one plus point from buying the Albee bottle is that it is owned by the purchaser and presumably would have a resale value.
As an aside, Hobby Gas and Adams Gas are the same people.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
John H
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've just checked my invoice - for both an oxygen and acetylene cylinder, including gas, VAT etc, I paid 334.80. This was in June. I did ring around the various suppliers and did find some price variations.
I wasn't particularly looking at any resale value for the cylinders - I was just getting hacked off at the ever increasing BOC rental costs. I was getting the impression that they didn't really want to be bothered with small volume users.
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There is one plus point from buying the Albee bottle is that it is owned by the purchaser and presumably would have a resale value.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
John H
-----------------------------------------------------------
I have no knowledge of acetylene or other flammable gas cylinders, but as diver I owned my own air cylinders and can tell you that no commercial air station would refill them unless they had a current test mark stamped into the shoulder by a registered tester. That testing was expensive and comprised an internal and external visual examination every two years in conjunction with a hydraulic and ultrasonic test every four years.
Diving cylinders have to operate in corrosive salt water, get knocked about on boats, and still be safely filled to 3400 psi so the testing was fairly stringent, but I daresay there will be some sort of lesser controls on what gas cylinders can or cannot be filled, so it is worth investigating any such additional cost that might be involved.
Cliff Coggin.
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"Cliff Coggin" wrote in message

BOC always used to say inspection was needed every ten years
Andrew
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Having posted a reply I re-read Peter's comments about MAPP and MAP-Plus and realised he had already answered some of my questions! It might teach me to read and understand, but I doubt it!
John H
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On Monday, October 7, 2013 11:58:21 PM UTC+1, John H wrote:

Try here for acetylene. My Argon comes from these people.
http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/
Charles
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"Charles P" wrote
Try here for acetylene. My Argon comes from these people.
http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/
Charles
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What do they charge for (a) the cylinder, and (b) the gas?
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On 08/10/2013 17:37, John wrote:

(a) 150, (b) 66 quoted at my local Faversham Hobbyweld outlet
http://www.favershamhire.co.uk/#/hobbyweld-prices/4573850372
Regards, Alan
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On Thursday, October 17, 2013 8:52:24 PM UTC+1, Alan Ibbetson wrote:

acetylene. My Argon comes from these people. > > http://www.hobbyweld.co.u k/ > > Charles > > > ------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- > > What do they charge for (a) the cylinder, and (b) the gas? > (a) 150, (b) 66 quoted at my local Fave rsham Hobbyweld outlet http://www.favershamhire.co.uk/#/hobbyweld-prices/45 73850372 Regards, Alan
I've ended up with Allbee acetylene as it was twice the quantity of the Hob byweld gas and cheaper. The Allbee cylinder including 10 litres of gas was 178.80. The Hobbyweld agent quoted 160.00 for the cylinder plus 60 .00 for the gas.
The price quoted from Albee agents varied from what I paid to over 220.0 0. The price from Hobbyweld agents was more or less the same. My cylinder c ame from Portable Gas Supplies of Finchampstead.
Thanks for the helpful replies.
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"Charles P" wrote in message

Hi Charles good to that you are still alive and kicking :)
Yes they do acetylene, but in mighty small bottles:(
Andrew
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On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 5:56:46 PM UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:

Andrew
Yes, still alive and kicking - just working rather hard and not getting enough time making stuff. Still, it could be worse. I trust that you're still buying ever bigger toys to squeeze into that huge shed?
I'd quite like gas welding kit but have never been able to justify the cost of the bottles. I find that TIG is a pretty good substitute for smaller bits but regrinding tungstens is a PITA
Charles
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