Reality check - 6x6 wood beam for lifting?

Fully extended, the legs are quite wide, I would say 4' at least...

i

There have been some pretty good suggestions but maybe some pictures will help describe the situation a bit better than I can in words.

Here's the mill in the garage for a checkout before moving it to the basement:

and here's one in the middle of positioning the mill on its stand, also in the garage:

and here is one where its (hopefully) will live in the basement:

As shown in the second picture the stand is fairly large and boxy with very little clearance for engine hoist legs. The stand had to be blocked up on sets of (3) 2x6 blocks at each corner to provide clearance for the hoist legs. This increases the overall height of the mill at the Z-axis stepper to around 90".

The third pictures shows the part of the basement shop where I'm hoping to use the mill. There's just enough floor space for the mill itself and I don't think there's any way to get two hoists, the mill, and the stand into the same space. The bottoms of the ceiling joists are about 87" above the floor and the top of the Z-axis stepper with the mill on its stand is about

86" high so there's precious little vertical space to work with. There is a lifting lug on top of the column and two pairs of holes in the base of the mill (picture 2) into which 3/4" round bars can be inserted parallel to the X-axis to act as lifting points.

The plan at present is to lift with a sling or two around the bars by the

2-ton chain hoist suspended from the beam between the center joists and then slide the stand under the suspended mill. The beam will be supported by the steel I-beam at the back and a jack post at the front. The light fixture would have to be relocated first, of course. If more lift height is needed a block or two can be inserted between the lift beam and the I-beam and the jack hoist adjusted to level the lift beam. The Z-axis stepper can also be removed from the mill column and that might be an easier vertical solution if a sling to the lifting lug isn't needed for balancing the load. Hopefully the load can be arranged so that the top of the column can protrude a little above the ceiling joists.

I'm also thinking that a steel tubular beam or heavy U-channel might be better than the wood beam. McMaster-Carr is my usual source for stock but they don't have anything large enough - maybe a local welding fab shop will have something.

Mike

You say a 34 x 4 x 36 slab of steel is $70 ???? I think you meant something else.

Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

Mike Henry wrote:

Thanks - I'll see if I can dig up a source tomorrow.

Mike

You'd be better with an I-section than channel. If you place a channel with the web horizontal, it'll be pretty weak. If you place it with the web vertical it'll be asymmetrical. Neither is great.

Best wishes,

Chris

Mike; I used my hydraulic lifting table for a similar task. You can place the mill on the table, roll it next to the new base, pump it up, and merely slide it on to the base. If you have trouble sliding it, some grease under the mill helps or roll it on 1/4" rods. This is a 15 minute job. Jim

Hi Mike,

So what's upstairs about where you want this? How about a small hole in the floor, an eye bolt and put your 6x6 across the floor joists upstairs. It would give you another 10 inches or so of lifting room up in between the floor joists. Set a chair, catalog (McMaster), something over the hole when your done. That's what a single guy would do :)

If you want confirmation about the particular RSJ, beam or channel that you are thinking of, then Google for BeamBoy beam analysis software. A wonderful freeware program that I used to specify the RSJ that holds up my workshop roof. I would quite happily still go with the 6x6" beam or even two sistered

2x6" C16 grade (flooring grade) planks on edge. This little mill is less than half a long ton and really isn't a major problem. It also looks as if the table and head would remove quite easily (although it is a pain to re-assemble things DAMHIKT). How did you move the Bridgeport-like object that is beside where it will go?

regards Mark Rand RTFM

SWMBO would never allow that and since she is helping move the mill I'll have to defer to her wishes. It's a good idea, though.

Mike

Thanks Mark - I'll dig up the site for Beam Boy and see how it compares to the calculators on Engineer's Edge.

It looks like a local blacksmith/welding shop can supply a 6" steel I-beam but he won't know the price until tomorrow. I can pick it up Saturday morning if the price is agreeable.

The BP-like object is actually a 900-lb Clauisng horizontal mill and it was moved in pieces too, but sits much shorter and was easy to deal with by hand or an engine hoist as the base is small eniough to fit between the hoist legs.

BTW, here's another picture with a mockup of the lift arrangement. It still needs a lot of work.

Mike

Jim,

That might work pretty well if I had access to one. I don't think I've ever seen one but it sounds like something that would be difficult to get into the same basement as access is only through 28" doorways and the stairs. If I'm wrong on that it would be worth checking into a rental.

Mike

If you have more room someplace else in the basement try setting the mill on the stand there. A Pallet jack fits under the Tormach stand and makes moving the assembled unit rather trivial.

Remember to caulk the side panels when you put them on.

Also do a dry run assembly of the side panels before putting it into the corner as my mill had a change in the yaxis cable routing that required a modification of the rear splash panel. Would have been damm near impossible pushed up against the wall.

I love my Tormach you should enjoy yours!

Paul

Thanks for the Tormach-specific tips, which prompt some follow up questions:

1) What sort of caulk did you use and is it compatible with flood coolant? 2) What sort of Y-axis change did you make that necessitated the rear splash panel mod? 3) How much room is required on either side of the mill to install the splash panels/chip tray?

I'd put the mill up on the base before disassembling it but neglected to test fit the chip tray. The stand manual doesn't go into much detail on side clearances and such that may be needed for assembly.

There is barely enough room in that alcove for the mill none elsewhere in the basement that has enough vertical clearance for the mill. It will be possible to move it around a little before final placement and I've rented a pallet jack for that purpose.

Mike

I did not put any on, now I have a few drips/leaks. I plan to take it off and caulk in the future.

Tormach made a change that rerouted the Y axis cable. they updated the machine, they did not update the chip guard in the version of the stand I got, I ended up needing to cut a slot so the yaxis cable could go through the rear chip guard. I was hesitant to publically post this as I really like the machine and I'm hesitant to post anything negative about a new machine because it gets blown out of proportion.

If you don't mind crawling on hard metal none on the sides, 18" on the rear. If you do mind crawling 18" on each side.

The mill gets shorter with the head down. I think you really need to be able to pull it forward and get behind to install the rear chip guard.

Paul (Same paul as the netburner paul ,this is my home address)

After the recent posts on folks posting questions and rarely following up, it seemed like a good idea to follow up on how things worked with the project asked about in this thread.

The project was to get a Tormach CNC mill and stand from the garage into the basement of a town home. The results can be seen here:

All in all, the whole thing from receipt of the mill to operational status in the basement took about 6 weeks and the whole job was done my my wife and myself.

Mike

Hey Mike (and Mrs. Mike),

Excellent!! For the mill, the procedure, and the report! Nice shots.

Comments.... I don't think you came close to any kind of dimension limits with what you did, but you could have gained some number of inches by using a round bar, say 2" X 15", that just fit between the floor joists. You speak of 6 X 6, which is not really visible in your shots, but if 6 X 6 was good, then a pair of 2 X 6 on either side of the chain-hoist housing that the 2 X ?? bar I mention could rest ON (on top of), would allow the top of the hook to be placed as high as possible and touching against the bottom of the flooring on the floor joists. Support the ends on the same stuff you supported the 6 X 6. It would be better/safer than the "eye" you used too.

And Kudos to having a lovely lady to assist you. If you can get that good help, it is somewhat better than having one too many guys like me or some of the other RCM group here, who always have a "better way", and more than the odd "Whydonchatry slinging it around the........". The old "too many big chiefs, not enough plain indians" problem!

Thanks for the report. Take care.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

ps.......nothing there that you couldn't have supported with a 2 X 6 not over 5 feet long!! Just gotta keep it from falling over. NOTE: See above about chiefs and indians. (VBG)

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I suspect the beam was way overkill for the task, but that was better than the alternative and I was not comfortable with estimating or interpreting the beam calcs properly. My wife was actually a tremendous help and came up with several good ideas along the way or caught things I missed when focusing on more mundane matters (or simply being stupid).

Mike

Whenever I first use a lifting point, I like to proof load it by lifting the main object an inch or so and then adding some more weight to make sure it's all OK. For something of this weight, the extra load is generally me. If it's much bigger, I bounce a bit. Not very scientific but it certainly works. I always remember that if it's not OK it will fall on me so take care.

John