Reno Crash

Or control surface flutter, or a heart attack (he was 74?).

It will be a very short investigation. An aircraft going in on the nose like that at 400+ MPH, there isn't much left to inspect.

I have already made a determination, and will bet ten bucks it will be the fed determination. Pilot error. Whenever they can't prove anything,, the pilot gets the blame.

Did he have a license to drive a car? Or was he too old? My heart goes out to his family, but pulling G's like that on a race course is a young man's game. I expect there will be some changes in the rules, and ensuing lawsuits.

"WADDYA MEAN 90 IS TOO OLD TO FLY ONE OF THESE 500 HP 500 MPH 65 YEAR OLD PLANES? I DID IT JUST FINE FOR MANY YEARS."

Condolences to all involved, but I do see a couple of obvious safety questions ...........

Steve

The first, in my libertarian heart, is why should we change anything at all, when we know that crashes happen at airshows?

Perhaps an object bouncing around someplace, or a control surface not working and he's trying to figure out what the @#$% to do to get out of the situation.

From your description, a jammed aileron plus 'up' from the pilot would pretty much do it.

Or a seizure, or a heart attack.

First, I am a life long registered libertarian.

WE should do nothing. The federal government has some jurisdiction because it involves aircraft. The states would have some jurisdictions over public events. Air ports, and landowners where special events have some responsibility, if not jurisdiction to set rules regarding special events held on their properties. Insurance companies have the right to set parameters on whatever they insure, be it a boat or a special event.

I see lawsuits 90 ways to Sunday in this aftermath, the first being filed any minute now.

I went to one air race at Boulder City, Nevada. It was put on by the same people that put on the Reno races. There were P-51's racing. The course was over multiple properties, BLM being one of them. It was one of the most boring afternoons of my life after five minutes.

We do not need to get into legislation and regulations as deep as we see the governments have gotten into them, but we do at least have to protect the public AS BEST WE CAN, and after that, s*it and acts of God happen. And people who attend public events do so at (mostly) their own risk, that is, unless they are injured, then disclaimers be damned, bring on the ambulance chasers.

My prayers are with those hurting today, and also hope that a little good comes from this.

Steve

I doubt they find any human remains large enough to make a determination from, as in the case of cardio related failure. If I read correctly, he flew straight into concrete, not landscaping.

Steve

I suppose most are older to afford a toy like that. I was checking around and ran into one in the Huff where someone saw a trim tab fly off. Unsure what to believe after seeing this other story, what gives here?

SW

He was a local pilot, and his group from the 'Leeward Air Ranch' flew the 'Missing Man Formation' on Veterans Day at the Marion County Veteran's Park in their WW II planes.

Y'know, if the federal and state gov'ts would simply bypass the requirement for any entity to pay the prevailing wages (Highest known wages + bennies ever paid in any city in the state/country, usually union wages) the costs to repair and renew our roads would drop drastically.

A more efficient inspection team might be in order, too. I've heard of monthlong delays in road building because some inspector was off in another state looking at something else. All the delays allow prices to increase and up the cost of every project.

-- Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. -- Thomas Jefferson

Look again. The article says in the second paragraph that they are looking for someone to build this by pass. The bypass was built as of Nov. last year. What are they doing making stories up?

SW

There is also a story about how he had just finished a LOT of modifications to the aircraft to make it faster this year. Cutting the wings down, cutting the ailerons from 60" down to 32" and several other modifications that were not even finished when they were in Reno. Maybe all of that should have been finished and tested before they flew?

Jimmy was from Ocala Florida and flew all over the US. He is one of the few who own flyable P-51s. Not many left around.

From Cy of the Navion group...

Re: [Navion eGroup] Re: Reno crash3

I didnt race that heat because plane broke earlier that morning. I watched the whole event.

Trim tab came off causing plane pitch violently blacking pilot out instantly. He didn't know what hit him. If you see the picture before impact you will see tail wheel it. That means unlock broke at or above

Don't get too excited. ALL of the Reno Unlimited racers are like that. It's a brutal class. They race under a Restricted certificate. It's not likely you will ever see them flying anywhere else.

And for the boob that questioned his age? They ALL have Class One flight physicals - just like airline pilots. That trumps your drivers license question by ten miles.

Sad...

But it does happen.

Richard

I know where he's from. I pass the 'Leeward Air Ranch' fairly often.

"Richard" wrote

I'm the boob that questioned his age. There are lots of people who get driver's licenses who shouldn't be driving. But they can be good for the ten minutes it takes to pass the test. Then they get unleashed on the real world.

I do not know what it takes to pass a physical for a pilot's license. Is there a stress test on a treadmill? Are there pushups? Pullups? Things like that that simulate what a pilot goes through in a 500 mph race plane on a tight course? I think not. The examination has little to do with what the license entitles the pilot to do in this case. For others who just sit in a chair and doze off during autopilot, and move levers and dials every few hours, it may be sufficient.

This man was 74 years old, and in apparent good health. That does not automatically qualify him for a license where lots of people are put at risk. It is no evaluation of how he can or will perform under extreme stress and exertion. It does not test his susceptibility to passing out under G pressure at his age.

What's the worst thing that could happen? He could have an "incident" and pass out?

I believe the facts speak pretty well for themselves.

If I knew there was going to be a 74 year old pilot in that fast and furious of a plane race, I'd choose to watch the reruns on TV. I wouldn't go any closer than five miles.

Lastly, there is NO comparison between an examination for a CLASS ONE pilot's license and a driver's license. NONE, NONE, NONE! That is an absurd point. Big deal. The pilot is medically within parameters. How will he do in a strenuous race? Apparently ..................

Steve

Have to respect the input of an actual racer. But I wonder about him blacking out. As the plane rolls up on edge, you can see the wings waggle a bit. That would be aileron input, suggesting to me in the scant moments he had left, he was trying to work out how to regain control. I personally think he was conscious to the last, and realizing he was likely done for, did what little he could to avoid as many people as possible.

I noticed the tail wheel extended and that nobody has mentioned it outside of your post. I've not seen that mechanism up close, but wonder if 8g would be sufficient to cause failure of the lock?

One of my customers was there, fortunately this year he wasn't in the box seats, but in past races has sat right in the general area impacted. I would have been there, but too busy with work right now to get away.

It's a very sad day for the aviation community, but I hope this does not bring an end to the races.

Jon

I doubt we will ever really know much more about it. Not much left.

I've taken 9 Gs before - in a G suit and with a smooth onset so I had time to get stable and grunt. At that load factor I weigh nearly 2000 pounds! It hurts! During and after.

Without the garters and no warning, and as suddenly as that seems to come on, my guess is the guy got jammed down in the cockpit and couldn't get back up. No head showing in several of those pics. If he got slammed down hard against the stick that might be why the pitch over and nose dive.

That's what I've been told. I can't swear either way. But the FAA / NTSB will know.

Yes, it was a sad day. But it could have been a whole lot worse.

If he was trying to avoid the crowd, he did the right thing - all the way to the end. It may have been the best flying he ever did...

Sorry Steve. I didn't mean to be ugly to you.

One less now.