stopping a diesel

A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1
Reply to
Engineman1
Loading thread data ...
When I worked for Ryder truck the larger trucks had a T-handle on the dash to pull the compression release. Probably the same on the Hino diesels except they are solenoid actuated.
On a side note, the GM diesels made me lots of money with their cheesy fuel cut off and even cheesier injection pump. Got quite a few calls to shut off a car that wouldn't shut off with the key or worse yet was building rpm until something broke.We'd use a Halon fire extinguisher and a big towel to shut them off without damage.
Ahhhh, the good old days. (mid 80's) Where are the Halon fire extinguishers now?
Reply to
Bart D. Hull
This isn't an answer to your question but is an experience with a diesel not shutting down that I won't ever forget. Thought I'd share....
In an earlier life I was an auto mechanic. I worked for a short time at a GM dealership. One day I heard a sound that I had never heard before in an auto shop. I sounded like a jet engine winding up. I looked up and notice people running out of the shop. The sound was coming from an Oldsmobile sitting a few stalls away from me. The guy working on it was frantically trying to shut off the diesel engine. He was trying to stuff rags into the intake, tried a vise grip on the steel fuel line, and the engine just kept going. It sounded like it was going to fly apart at any second. Smoke was pouring out. A truly ugly scene. The sevice manager came running across the shop with a bucket in hand. He got to the car and dumped the radiator water/antifreeze mixture into the intake, the engine sputtered and died.
The mechanic had been working on the fuel distribution system and eveidently didn't do something right. Turning the key off didn't do a thing. I'd like to know how high that engine rev'ed up to. They torn the engine down and rebuilt it. I never did hear if the customer was ever told about it.
Lane
Reply to
Lane
Some diesels have a normally open fuel solenoid in the injection pump. You need to apply power to the solenoids to stop the flow of fuel. The shut down may be a solenoid the pushed the injection rack to a position that causes the pump to stop delivering fuel. Either way you need a few seconds of power applied to the kill wire. Simplest, least problematic it a plain old normally open push button. One nice feature of a shut down like this is the engine does not need any electrical power to run, once it is running it will go 'till it runs out of fuel or is intentionally shut down. It increases the dependability somewhat by not needing power to run Greg
Reply to
Greg O
A side note to this; I was told years ago of diesel backhoes that, when accidently hitting natural gas pipelines...would ramp up RPMs from the "free" fuel mix, till rods, etc busted. Or worse.
~Dave
Greg O wrote:
Reply to
Dave
Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion. The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing. What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.
I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.
Long rags, don't forget the long rags. Normal shop towels could be sucked under a valve and demolish the motor as well.
As you can tell, we had a "system" for this issue.
Reply to
Bart D. Hull
I saw this happen once in the oil fields but on a slightly larger scale. The rigs hoist was powered by a 398 Cat..just about the size of a small condo...and a gas kick managed to make it past the drilling mud and the dumbshit that was supposed to shut the pipe rams was drunk in his car. AKA Blowout. Not a big one..but one big enough...
That big old bastard started winding up and up and up and up...and from a distance as I was running away..I could hear it blow, then catch the entire rig location on fire. It was a couple weeks before we went back to work. They had to pull nearly an entire new rig back on the well.
I wish Id been able to survey the damage to the motor and the rig..but they hauled it off to Texas to rebuild everything IIRC.
Chuckle..Cactus Drilling, El Dorado Arkansas was the company, and they were drilling in Michigan. Lots of fun working derrick at -40, and then have the wind start blowing the snow sideways past the working board on that Triple.
Gunner, having a nostalgia moment
"Anyone who cannot cope with firearms is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house." With appologies to RAH..
Reply to
Gunner
Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of these engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff lever can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important. Diesels will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb. Steve
Reply to
Steve Lusardi
Modern diesel automobiles that I have encountered (and, indeed, modern tractors and whatnot) have fuel solenoids that shut off the flow of diesel to stop the vehicle when you shut the key off. A mechanical diesel (as opposed to an electronic-injection diesel) will run as long as it has fuel, unless something makes it stop. Every diesel will have a kill-switch under the hood in case you lose electrical power - without power you can't move the solenoid to shut off the fuel. If the solenoid is sprung then you might have a situation where without power the spring returns the solenoid and the fuel shuts off. That, to me, is not a good thing. I've made it home in my old diesel truck with a frozen battery and without enough power to run the turning indicators or anything else, but the engine ran fine to get me home. If it had have stopped dead somewhere I would have not been amused. A diesel of an older design may not have a solenoid but rather a spring-return lever that acts both as the emergency kill switch and the usual method of stopping the engine via a cable-pull from the operator's position. In the case of these Hinos, if they're similar to the Hinos that I have dealt with, they will be mechanically injected and definitely of the 'run until they're out of fuel' variety, so they have to be stopped manually. I haven't yet seen a Hino with a compression release, so I would strongly suspect that the button you're pushing is attached to a solenoid that pushes against a spring-return lever on the injector pump to kill the engine.
Reply to
Mike Graham
Lane wrote in article ...
water/antifreeze
At GM school in Dedham, Mass., we were taught to "refer to the service manual" for runaway conditions.
A service manual placed directly on top of the flat-topped air intake horn would shut off all air into the engine.
Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E. Chassis Analysis Services
Reply to
Bob Paulin
Wait until that diesel runs away by consuming it's own lube oil. You have never been really frightened until you share a bilge with this event.
Reply to
Beecrofter
My old Fordson Major tractor has a throttle plate which controls the air flow. To turn it off you pull a lever and it floods the engine to shut it off. To start it you also pull the same lever out and let go of the lever and crank it until it starts. When it starts the lever goes in on it's own. I have never seen anything like it before. Also if you ether start it you will blow a head gasket. The tractor was built in Feb. 1957. There is no glow plugs on it, you just crank it until it starts.
Richard W.
Reply to
Richard W.
Pneumatic governor. Your 'throttle plate' will be a butterfly valve with a hole in one side, & a venturi tube through the hole. There's a diaphragm on the end of the fuel pump rack which senses the pressure drop in the venturi tube, & adjusts the fuel supply accordingly. Works well until the diaphragm gets a hole in it The start/stop arrangement is probably set so that pulling out the stop & resetting it lifts the 'excess fuel' stop for easier cold starting.
Diesels won't generally run away on their own lube oil unless there's far too much oil - maybe because there's been fuel leakage into the sump. 2-stroke engines (eg GM) are much more likely to run away than 4-strokes, IMO.
Cheers Tim
Tim Leech Dutton Dry-Dock
Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
Reply to
timleech
When I was in the Navy (about 50 years back) we kept a canvas bag near the air filter to stop the engine in case of a run away.
The ones with the blower (GM 261?) were known for lube oil leaks into the air stream.
Bill K7NOM
Reply to
Bill Janssen
I'm glad it worked in the Navy. When I was in the Army, I heard of a runaway deuce and a half engine. The mechanic took off his field jacket and threw it over the intake. The engine ate the jacket buttons, zipper and all.
Reply to
Jim Stewart
While this is not realy in line with the content of this thread, I seen a diesel get stopped this past Wednesday......Driver lost it in a very hard flat turn going well over the speed limit, trailer got into the ditch, tractor stayed on the road itself, both started to slide sideways and then both roller over on their side. From the time the trailer and tractor rolled over (you could tell exactly where the trailer side was against the roadbed as it melted the reflector of the sidemarker into the blacktop) it still traveled better than 240 feet on its side with the tractor leading the tanker trailer, until the cab and hood of the tractor was sheared off by a brand new power pole, which eventually came to rest at the backwall of the sleeper. The drivers head was between the sleeper wall and the power pole. The driver only lasted another 3 or 4 minutes after the rig came to a stop. Not much I could do for him, except watch him die. Lost his pulse and could not detect it in wrist or neck and his eyes did not have any reflex action when I touched his eyeball. Could not do any CPR because there was no way to really get to him to do it. The truck kept flameing up with hot oil and diesel fuel running on to the turbocharger and manifold (CAT diesel powered) which was in a Big long nosed Peterbuilt Tractor) so I had my hands full trying to see what I could do for the driver, and trying to keep the fire out without a fire extinguisher. LOts of folks stopped and then drove off, not a darn person offered to help or lend a hand. Finally a lady came over and ran for an extinguisher and towels etc. She lived in the middle of that turn and was just accross the street checking her mail when he crashed. She was horror struck and she was apparently stuned by what just happened about 50 feet from where she was standing. She managed to pee all over herself, but once she regaied composure of herself she was terriffic at helping do what she could do. She ran and fetched a fire extinguisher from her house and brought it back, but would not come over to the truck as she was deathfully afraid of seeing an accident victim.
Took over 25 minutes for paramedics to get there from 8 miles away, 49 minutes for any law enforcement officer to show, and almost and hour and a half for any fire trucks that came from 12 miles away. Hazmat team took over 4 1/2 hours to get on scene from 18 miles away. Up to that point I was still the only one that had gone over to the driver, as everyone else refused to attend to him (already dead) because of the contents in the tanker trailer (some kind of acid) which was leaking and running out on the ground and foaming all up. So it was over 4 1/2 hours until someone else went over and said, yep he is dead, they took my word that he had died, and who the hell am I, I am not a certified medical tech or coroner. Truly pathetic rescue and emergency response from this area. Totally unbelieveable. Entire road was eventualy shut down for over 14 hours until they cleaned up the mess. It happened about 1/4 mile up the road from my house and I was behind him, when it happened. I had to wait for him to pass by my driveway so I could pull out, and saw the whole 9 yards unfold. I had a feeling he was going to loose it in the turn due to his rate of speed and no signs of his brake lights that he was attempting to slow it down. Unreal and hard to fathom, how a trucker could not see the sign thats posted with a hard curve and 35 MPH speed limit posted. ON the straightaway the speed is 55, down to 45 and then 35 for the turn. He was gong better than 80 mph from what they figured when he entered the turn.
But laying a diesel on its side and hitting a pole will stop one just fine! (added to keep post on topic ) -- Visit my website: Remove nospam for correct address http:// snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects. Regards Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever. Remove nospam from email address
Reply to
Roy
I have seen a VW diesel continue to run from the oil coming from the crankcase vent tube.
Richard W.
Reply to
Richard W.
The diesel I have shuts down by cutting off the fuel flow to the injectors. There is a solinoid that, when energized, retracts and lets the fuel cutoff level move to the run position. When de-energized the same solinoid moves the fuel level to the stop position and holds it there. Works nice. For emergency shutdown use a board over the air intake.
John
Reply to
John
Roy I feel for you. It is terrible to be a witness to something like that. Hopefully the memories won't cause you and her any problems.
BTW, where abouts do you live? Lane
Reply to
Lane
He was asleep! With his eyes open, of course, but he was driving in his sleep. I've seen a few truck accidents like this, and even did it once myself when driving tired. I was fascinated by the way those wooden sticks with the dayglo paint were spinning as they broke in half on the front fender, when suddenly I woke up and said to myself "Hey, this is SERIOUS!!!!!" It was a well-marked place where a 2-lane each way divided highway converted to one lane each way, and I was just drifting along, pralleling the car in the other lane, when i finally snapped out of it. So, I know from my own experience that it DEFINITELY can happen to anyone.
The fact that he didn't brake at all is a very clear indication he was not "with it".
Jon
Reply to
Jon Elson

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.