# Sunday scores

Huot index with 8 USA HSS Silver and Deming drill bits, 1/2" shank, 9/16 to 1". All new except 3/4", which is almost new. \$12.05
Union Butterfield drill bit set, 1/64 to 1/2 by 1/64", TiN plated, in huot index, all brand new, \$10.
USA made drill bit set, small sizes about up to 1/4" by 0.001 or 0.002 (I do not understand the principle), looks like all others, \$5.
i
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Nice!
Are you sure that is not a number size (wire size) drill set? 60 drills ranging from something like 0.040" for the #60 up to 0.228" for the #1.
Don't expect them to be even sized steps. The sizes essentially fill gaps left in the fractional inch sizes, so some skip over the fractional in size. Also -- the size of the steps varies with the overall size of the bit. For example, the #59 is 0.0410" and the #60 is 0.0400" -- so only 0.001" step size. But at the other end, the #1 is 0.2280" and the #2 is 0.2210" -- a step size of 0.007".
I believe that the sizes are related to the formation of wire by drawing it through successively smaller holes -- with adjustments to skip the fractional near misses. So you wind up with 0.1285" for a #30 and 0.1200" for a #31 -- skipping the 0.1250" for a 1/8".
Anyway -- don't expect the number sizes to fit a neat formula for calculation. It is easier to implement a look-up table in your program.
Here are the sizes:
<http://sector7.xor.aps.anl.gov/tables/number_drill.html
The number series actually goes on down to #80 (0.0135") in a separate smaller index. If you have one of the 115 bit Huot indexes (fractional, number, and letter sizes) you may have noticed a bent up hook in the letter size section. It turns out that this is just right to hold the index for the #61-#80 bits. (I discovered this almost by accident -- never read about it anywhere, but wondered what it was for, and since I had a Huot #61-#80 index, I tried it for fit and was quite pleased.
Enjoy,         DoN.
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Yes, it is very possibly that.
i

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In which case -- *keep* it. Usually called "number size" or "wire size" drills.
Those sizes are the best choices as the tap drills for many smaller taps. I like having the fractional, number, letter, *and* metric drill sets -- so between them you can usually find something just the size you need -- including fine tuning the tap drill size when you are tapping long threads in tough material. As long as there is enough length to supply the strength when you have less percentage of thread depth.
Enjoy,         DoN.
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On 9/26/2010 8:16 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

I've been damned annoyed by that hook for decades, in that it allows a few drill bits to slide forward, preventing lifting the index on that side until they've been slid back. Now I know!
Learn something new every day....
Jon
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And -- if you have the #61-80 index in there it reduces the amount of hooking that occurs there -- not totally, but a significant improvement.
Enjoy,         DoN.
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wrote:

"hooking"? Wuzzat?????? Maybe like when the bits slide out of situ while the case is closed, and they get caught or "hooked"?
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[ ... ]

Yep! You grab the edge of the topmost letter tray in the 115-bit set and start to lift it, and it comes up about a quarter inch or less and then pulls out of your grip -- until you tilt the index so the letter drill side is down and the bits are no longer protruding under the clip (he called it a hook) designed to hold the #61-#80 index (sort of like a thick matchbook in size).
FWIW -- while the old HUOT drill indexes were gray hammertone, and the newer ones are something like a fine-grained gray wrinkle finish, the #61-#80 index from HUOT is blued steel -- or at least mine is.
Oh yes -- I also have an index for 3/4" to 1" Morse Taper 3 drills (a nice fit for my lathe's tailstock) which is olive drab -- and the bits weigh enough so the pins on which the trays pivot tend to pop out from time to time. :-)
Enjoy,         DoN.
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Hey DoN,
OK. Thanks.
I have three new Huot's for inch/number/letter purchased (empty) just last year, but they don't have that "hook" piece. I have a Cleveland and a few "Chinese clones of the Huot's" of the same type, and they don't have it either. Funny thing is, I have about a dozen Huot boxes altogether, and not one of them has what I would consider a "part number" on them, so I have no reference to note.
In any case, I only have a few of the # 61-80's indexes, but none are Huot that I could see, and I don't use anything in them often enough to care about keeping them "convenient". In the smaller sizes, I keep package size lots of just what I do use, including a goodly number of the numbers and smaller inch, but none of the smaller letter drill bits. I'm not good enough and don't care to learn how to sharpen the itty-bitty stuff, and they are not expensive in package lots, so when they quit cutting, they quit being drill-bits and become "pins".
Take care.
Brian
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On 9/27/2010 9:58 PM, Brian Lawson wrote:

It's the 3-in-1 box that has this hook. The hook is formed out of the divider between fraction and number drills. I've wondered for many years just what the heck it was there for. I assumed Huot didn't put it there to annoy me, but couldn't divine any sensible purpose. I never thought to try putting the small index in there. It does fit, and now it makes sense...
Jon
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 23:10:35 -0800, Jon Anderson

Hey Jon (and DoN)
Hmmmm....I guess I just have different ones. These three have fractions in three folding levels to the left, letters in three folding levels to the right, and there is an upright divider between them, and then the number drills are straight lined on the "lid" along what I guess I'd call the "back" when it is open.
Found it on their site (called "Combination" indexes)
<http://store.huot-store.com/tool-storage/product/11700.html
Have a look...no "hook" visible to me in the pix. Maybe they have quit that extra piece?
Brian.
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On 9/28/2010 7:18 AM, Brian Lawson wrote:

It's there, just not exactly obvious. At the side of that divider, you can see a light strip. It's punched on three sides and formed into an 'L'. This L is what we were calling the 'hook', and will hold the miniature drill index. Maybe hook wasn't the best descriptive term...
Jon
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[ ... 115 bit index with "hook" ... ]

Actually -- this photo *does* have it. Look in the divider near the front edge. You will see a streak of lighter color bong perhaps 1/3 of the way along the divider. That is actually the bottom of the index, seen through where the metal was bent to form the hook. The actual hook will show up lower than we can see clearly in that photo.
It is formed from metal bent out of the divider into an 'L' shape, with the open end towards the center of the box.
It looks sort of like this: (ASCII graphics -- use a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid image distortion)
+--------------------------------------------------------+ | --------------Number--- \ ---Bits--------------------- | | \ | | Fractional bits \ Letter Bits | | \ | | \ <-- divider | | \ \ | | Hook for #61-80 index->\ \ | | \/ \ | +--------------------------------------------------------+
Unfortunately, the '/' character does not make a true right angle with the '' ones, so the hook is a bit distorted.
Enjoy,         DoN.
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Interesting. My 115 piece set was purchased perhaps ten years ago -- a "Made in USA" drill set from MSC with the HUOT index.

The hook is on the fractional drill side of the partition between letter and fractional sections -- and close to the opening edge. It lines up with the three largest fractional bit tips.
It is interesting that the index does not have the HUOT name stamped in the lid -- that is blank. The only maker's mark is stamped in the bottom - visible when the letter size drills are tipped up. And yes, it *is* marked HUOT. (I've always wondered why the name is always all upper case. Is it an acronym?)

I keep mine there less for convenience, and more as a way to keep it where I can *find* it the few times I need it. The 115 bit index is a lot easier to find than something as small as the 61-80 index.
Yes, I used to keep it in a specific drawer of a machinist's tool chest -- I forget who made that particular chest (if it even had a maker's name visible), but it was not Gerstner. I do have a couple of theirs, but this one is not it. (It does not have a hinged lid, so it lives between two shelves a lot better than one with a hinged lid.

I happen to have a sharpener (which used to be made by DuMore) which will handle 1/4" down to #70. Below #70, it is a mater of just purchase new in packs of 12. :-)
If you are interested in what the sharpener is like, I made a web page when I was getting it working.
<http://www.d-and-d.com/interesting-tools/DuMore-Drill-Grinder/index.html
Enjoy,         DoN.
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

I didn't have a Huot, but my index did that & was very irritating. So I just left it open. But it was on a shelf and the sizes were hard to see beyond the 1st row.
What I did was take the bit holders out, mount them side-by-side, just above my drill press:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/DrillIndex.jpg
They are very conveniently located, I can see the sizes, and I can extract & replace bits easily. None of which was true before.
I never could see the usefulness of boxed indexes - YMMV, Bob