Too Much Flex in Aluminum Tubing

Wow so many good ideas ! Some responses below.

The pier is completely isolated from the observing deck. The hole goes down about 42 inches into fairly dense soil. At the 36 inch mark I hit a layer of large stones that appears to go in for a while. The shape of the footer is like a pyramid with the top chopped off. Someone asked about pouring a concrete pier. While this is a great idea for a pier it creates a problem if you ever want to move. Someone also mentioned pouring concrete into the pier - This is a real no no with aluminum. The concrete will corrode aluminum in no time.

Someone asked how am I measuring this ?

Laser pointers :-) Clamp a laser pointer or in my case last pointers to the pier and aim them at a target some distance away. This is how I can be fairly sure that the pier itself is flexing. I can't be 100 percent sure since the laser pointers don't give a really precise dot. I can also see this in the eyepiece of the scope using a high power cross hair eyepiece.

Someone asked about the pier to concrete mounting.

I imbedded 3/4 inch jbolts 18 inched into the concrete. I leveled the top of the concrete with a sheet of thick plexiglass so that it was level and smooth. The bottom of the pier is flat to a very good straight edge. I used large washers below the nuts and I tightened the nuts to 100 ft lbs.

I did an experiment last night. I took some 1.5 x 1.5 steel tubing and I roughed it up with a 40 grit sanding disk. I clamped the tubing very tightly to the pier with some homemade H clamps. This appears to have really helped perhaps enough to allow me to image. Unfortunately clouds rolled in before I could try the camera. So I am thinking of welding a rib down sides of the pier as step one. I still want to try adding the tensioning rods as well to see if that improves it more. I also started cleaning up the steel pipe last night as well as I may end up going that way.

Scott Hogsten

Reply to
qedude
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How about some lead shot? Might take a few bags to fill up the column, though, runs $13-15/25 lb. bag around here. If you're cheap and have a big enough hole for access, you could scout up some buckets of wheelweights from tire shops and chuck those in there. Adding weight isn't going to stiffen up things, but it may change the vibrational characteristics enough to live with it. You'd have to determine exactly what sort of vibration you're getting, torsional, bending, vertical, horizontal, etc. before you can really stiffen the column up. Welding on a few gussets might make a difference, welding some plates onto the column faces might help, too, just depends on in what plane(s) your movement is occuring.

Stan

Reply to
Stan Schaefer

Probably won't help. Steel has three times the elastic modulus so will raise the frequency. Steel has three times the mass so that will lower the frequency. Haven't calculated it but the net result may well be little or no change.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Edwards

Before calculating the steel is 10 inch 3/8ths inch wall. So larger, thicker, and much much heavier.

Scott Hogsten

Reply to
qedude

The mass of the steel won't matter much since the majority of the system mass is in the stuff attached to the ends of the tube.

Dick

Reply to
D.B.

What is the frequency of your vibration?

Have someone give the top of the pier a shove and let go while you observe. If the resulting frequency is the same as what you are observing now, that will help confirm that the problem is the pier. I believe you already confirmed it when you clamped on the steel stiffner and reduce the problem, but measure twice cut once is always good advice.

Dick

qedude wrote:

Reply to
D.B.

The frequency was the same about once a second. The amplitude at max was about the same but died off much faster with a smaller amplitude at rest. I think it is close to being below the noise level of the photo system that I use. I don't really care to an extent if the scope moves when I thunk the pier it just needs to stop moving in a reasonable period of time. I need to shoot a couple of images to see. What I really want to do is shoot some star trails because then I can get an accurate measure of the movement.

Scott Hogsten

Reply to
qedude

You have a real unusual problem Scott, but then I'm sure you're told that a lot :):)

It's difficult to imagine how any mass that you aluminum column could hold up could result in a one Hz natural frequency. That sounds more like the concrete blob or the earth it is anchored in is moving.

Dick

qedude wrote:

Reply to
D.B.

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:31:31 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@somehost.somedomain (qedude) wrote something ......and in reply I say!:

A question or two. When you say you can see the effect in the eyepiece, using a cross-hair high mag eyepiece, what are you looking at? Stars, or the Laser dots?

I ask because I am wondering if you are over-reacting. If the laser pointer rotates at a radius of say, 3", and the dot is 100 feet away, you have a 400:1 "magnification". If at that point you are hard-pushed to see any movement, will the 'scope's view be affected at all?

I know a lot depends on the mounting etc, and the effective radius of rotation of the laser. But it is a thought.

****************************************************************************************** Until I do the other one,this one means nothing Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

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!!

Reply to
Old Nick

No I am looking at polaris with the drives off. Also it takes very little vibration to introduce problems into system. We are talking arc seconds of movement. With a little luck I will be doing some welding this weekend. Also on the recommendation of a fellow amateur astronomer I am going to insert a gasket between the pier and the concrete to see if that helps. BTW for those of you in the eastern US there us a lunar eclipse tomorrow (Nov 8) starting at 6:30 and reaching the darkest stages (totality) at about 8:10. Thanks for everyone's help with this.

Scott Hogsten

************
Reply to
qedude

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 22:52:43 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@somehost.somedomain (qedude) wrote something ......and in reply I say!:

OK. Thanks for replying. As I said it was just a thought. I know how little movement telescopes can tolerate.

****************************************************************************************** Until I do the other one,this one means nothing Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

!!

Reply to
Old Nick

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